Yes! Now a Fabian toady has raised his blood banner too, all in the cause of anti-human, eugenicist nutbaggery.

Great work, Milob. You and Cheryl seem to have proved conclusively that anyone arguing for human life quality over human life quantity is a moral degenerate. That raises the question of what to do with us? A badge? Round us up and put us in a correctional camp(assuming you believe that human being have the capacity to change their opinions)? You couldn't just let a bunch of moral degenerates walk about freely, could you? But perhaps this discussion would be better left for another thread.

How much is the per capita cost of the infrastructure that provides the Australian living standard? And how much the cost of educating a population to make it function? There has been a huge debt accumulation in recent years, incurred by the cost of coping with building the infrastructure for a rapidly growing population. This will have an adverse effect on living standards and quality of life. Surely the best population policy for a nation is the one that delivers the greatest benefit to its citizens?

nice try sanchos[no the queen dont direct the armed forces]..even though i had to swear an oath of loyalty to defend here and her succesors

but her royal highness is one of the wealthiest woman in the world..[able to buy shares we commoners cant.[aBLE TO BUY one third of THE BANK of england..WITH A TAX STICK]..able to do as she pleases

but im more focused curreently..on other finatial issues..[like the bail out guarentees to under pin the banking system..[unspoken is govts..[including the krudd govt,issued bonds to underpin the govt guarentee..[it is these bonds that made sure the pathetic bank audit's passed muster..[or qld govt privatising yet more public assets[or docs being privatised]

but the malthusian/teutonic/bolchovics/eugenisysts..would rather we dont talk about their finatial treasons..[so we get the destractions such as this debate..[or green/men in black/suits saying business needs surity of a tradable carbon credit]...because the poles are melting [or the sky is falling/failing or some other such rot

its only till they get the bugs refined out of their new swine.bird/human flue mutant..[that should have offed one third of us by now]..but somehow is more mild..than the usual flue...lol...looks like they killed the 20 scientists that created it too soon

that dont prevent the media beating up the bird flew media distraction..while the teutonic zionista does their thing...god knows the hos-pit-als are doing their darndest with the current drugs..passing away as many as they can with the midnight injection that results in the heading ..passed away peacfully in their sleep

Fractelle, modest home, economical car...? You greedy, selfish, resource sucking, consuming, urban sprawling, overpopulating human, you! Are others entitled to your life, or only other hypocrits? Modest by whose standards? You are in the top wealth category on this planet if you have these. Perhaps you should give it all to a Somalian family and do more by car pooling in Protagoras '95 Volvo dickiemobile, which apparently doesn't run on the fossil fuel she so loathes. And while we're at it RawWally, how did you access the internet from the jungle you live in?

Overpopulation "denialists", climate "denialists" - hmmm, do I detect a pattern of language emerging here? It is these people who are in denial of their own blind hypocrisy. Remember it's a sin to be alive, but only Others are guilty! And all this from an article by a 9/11 conspiracy theorist who should be writing for obscure teenager UFO spotting magazines.

The totalitarians want to control the thermostat, the party numbers, and probably very soon, the TV remote control, as well. Be afraid - there was a time when nutters were on the fringe. Now they're on the fridge.

Fair go Fungo ol' chum! Everyone knows daggett was abducted by aliens, hence his extended absence from this thread. The aliens will return him soon after first examining the contents of his mind.

As for RawWally/RawMustardGas: he's an “outdoors man”, who doesn't “give a rats for...Personal Computers...and all that useless crap”. As he also said: “I'm and outdoors man, I hunt, fish, put up breading boxes, walk the bush, boat down the rivers, lakes, try to keep things in balance, enjoy nature and life for all it's worth.” He also apparently cuts down trees, skips and jumps, and goes to the lavatory...his posts must have got here by telepathy.

Note fungochumley's incisive treatment of the nutters' base hypocrisy here. That's why I stated earlier: "Many historians have identified the fundamental hypocrisies and other inconsistencies in past fascism, but such study hasn't prevented these people's repetitions thereof."

That's just one further fascist characteristic to match with the neo-Malthusians. Italian fascists advertised their “ancient mission” and destiny as a breed of natural, spontaneous types, but then they idolized every kind of technological elitism, including Futurist art. Nazi fascists contrived their cult of the outdoors and parallel pagan mythologies, forest fetishes, etc., but in practice caused the most intensive urbanization in German history, while sponsoring many forms of technological innovation (without, of course, any equitable, open or even peaceful purposes for their application).

At contemporary Australia's gutter level these anti-immigration nutters have their comrades among those vilifying and even assaulting Indian students and others, especially in Melbourne.

But there's an even stranger, more pathetic anomaly from the current Australian descent into Malthusian fantasies. Whereas earlier fascists had enough energy for a frenzied burst against the rest of the world while self-destructing, this mob here seems almost entirely devoted to just the suicidal part of such sentiment.

Other countries only need to look on in bewilderment.

[btw Fractelle: don't try to equate Linux users with your twisted views - I run three different Linux distros and I oppose your cult unconditionally]

Pericles,

If you want a plan of action, you might consider what you do when your toddler floods the bathroom. You first turn off the tap, then get out your mop and try to get the water up before it ruins your hall carpet and finds a way to leak down to the ceiling of the room below. While you are doing this, you think about how to prevent the problem from recurring. No one just turns the tap off and walks away, but there is no point in doing anything else if you are not willing to turn off the tap.

Here, turning off the tap means cutting immigration back to a responsible level that won't blow out a population that is already running short of water. You also stop bribing people to have babies. Fractelle has already explained the mopping part very well, basically, reduce, reuse, and recycle. I would add that we need some government action as well to, among other things, put some restraints on advertising, tax the most damaging forms of consumption to prevent the consumers from externalising the environmental and social costs, and impose some minimum efficiency and durability standards (to eliminate planned obsolescence).

Mil-ob,

If mass migration had all of the economic benefits you claim, then this should be obvious in the statistics. Go to the CIA World Fact Book (on the Web) and look at the statistics for the different countries. You will find no link between population size, growth rate, or density and GNP per capita for the developed countries. You will find such a link for population growth rate among the Third World countries, but it is negative. The ones that are growing fastest are the poorest. You might compare Australia's prosperity and public services with those of Denmark, which has hardly any population growth. Another counterexample is the US, which has had massive population growth due to immigration over the past 40 years. This has been good news for the rich, but the real incomes of most people have stagnated. See

http://lanekenworthy.net/2008/03/09/the-best-inequality-graph/