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The Forum > Article Comments > Winners and losers from St Mary’s > Comments

Winners and losers from St Mary’s : Comments

By Alan Austin, published 29/4/2009

The fiasco at St Mary’s Catholic Church, Brisbane, is a disaster for Catholics worldwide. Couldn’t Peter and John have sorted it out over a beer?

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" ... I would posit that Father Kennedy's 'open church' better reflects Christianity than the papal driven Catholic church with its rosaries, rituals and self-reverential 'righteousness'. ... "

Yes, well said *Fractelle*

Further to some of Pericles's comments, I would point out that one needs to consider the nature of the "Priest/Ess/In Betweens"

If you accept that they have (and I prefer the God Concept that we all do let alone just the Priesties) have a 1 on 1 relation with Goddo, then that in turn affords the said person considerable latitude to claim personal "Divine Inspiration." And of course, we ought ask the question, how does the organisation evolve in its understanding?

Of course, personally inspired priests as may be the case in this article often fall afoul of the dogma of catholic papal infallibility and its other political control mechanisms.

This is of course arguabley accounts for much of the sheer idiocy that catholics preach, such as that in relation to contraception. The Europeans were quite right in my view seeking to have the <edit> no longer heard.

As for preaching against gays, he's lucky I'm not making the rules as I would impose criminal sanctions for the offence and have him tried and locked up, plus a "thorough" investigation over the alleged cover up in relation to child abuse.
Posted by DreamOn, Thursday, 30 April 2009 12:43:35 PM
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Thank you for the feedback. First, yes, agree entirely with Terra, Pericles and Glorfindel that the archbishop had the right to insist the people of St Mary's leave the premises. Which they have done. No question. Once the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith reached its 2008 decision it was all over for that worshipping community as Roman Catholics. But did the doctrine dudes make the right decision?
Agree totally with Terra, Mustard and Glorfindel that doctrine is vital and no, we cannot make it up as we go along. No-one is advocating this. Not sure Glorfindel is right suggesting we have here "central matters of faith and doctrine". More inclined to agree with Fractelle.
Will be back shortly with a tentative response to Blairbar regarding a better outcome. But first a retraction. I now accept it was flippant and inappropriate to suggest that such serious matters could be resolved over a beer. So I retract. It should have been a robust aged Hunter Valley Shiraz followed by a quality French Cognac.
Posted by Alan A, Thursday, 30 April 2009 2:37:16 PM
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Pericles has a point irrespective of whether people think that the Catholic Church fails to reflect Christianity or that Fr Kennedy is a good bloke. Fr Kennedy liked to go in the newspaper saying he doesn't believe there is a Catholic Church (stating that Jesus didn't start a Church) and saying he is an atheist. As has been pointed out he publically rejected virtually everything people associated with Christian belief and which is incorporated in the Catholic brand of the religion. He has sworn (to the God he doesn't believe in) that he would obey the Bishop but of course refused to do so. Indeed, according to the Archbishop, he bad mouthed both the Archbishop and the Roman hierarchy from the pulpit.

Interestingly he says that he is a Catholic. I presume such extreme polarity in that direction would be rare but conceivable. However he is a Catholic priest charged with bringing the Catholic faith to people. A lot of people who detest the Catholic Church might be a little disingenous about whether or not he can do his job as he has managed to bag the Catholic Church in the media quite effectively for some time. Nevertheless it is hard to believe that the Catholic haters genuinely believe that he could fulfil his role.
Posted by mjpb, Thursday, 30 April 2009 4:10:50 PM
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Blairbar, a number of outcomes better for all concerned can be imagined. It may have been better for the archbishop and the Vatican to have accepted that different contexts demand different approaches. St Mary's is quite unlike most local churches with the scale of its outreach to marginalised groups. Yet 'Good News to the poor' is supposed to be part of the ministry of Jesus. Some claim it is the ministry of Jesus.

Specifically, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith could have approved a limited number of alternative words for Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The archbishop could have defended the right of St Mary's to live its life and conduct its ministry in its congregational style. He could have asked Brisbane's liturgical commission to collaborate with St Mary's to tweak the liturgies acceptably. Nothing done at St Mary's seems outside accepted practice in similar churches working with the poor in other denominations. Nothing seems outside Biblical models. And nothing seems outside the spirit of Roman Catholic teaching. Whenever something amiss arises, then we may resort to diligent dialogue and debate.

Another outcome is imagined, much more eloquently, here. http://www.stmaryssouthbrisbane.com/community-to-archbishop
Posted by Alan A, Thursday, 30 April 2009 7:58:21 PM
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Looking at this situation from a financial perspective, it makes little sense to have a few thousand parishioners making little or no economic contribution. It would be far more sensible to chuck them out and sell the site for redevelopment.
Posted by Fester, Thursday, 30 April 2009 8:28:19 PM
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Alan - The Church doesn't believe it has the power to just rewrite the words of the baptismal formula at will - they are after all Scriptural.

Congregationalism is a heresy that was rejected at the time of the reformation by Catholics.

And the Church is not just 'another denomination'!
Posted by terra, Thursday, 30 April 2009 9:44:46 PM
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