As Yabby rightly points out, give women in developing world control over their fertility, and populations miraculously stabilise. Then all the shrill denouncements of the heretics by jihadists of the population growth cult can be given their richly deserved obscurity.

Clownfish,

Divergence's point about real wages rising following the Black Death also applies to many other eras in history. The fact is that most human history since the discovery of agriculture has been cycles of expansion and collapse and not of steady monotonic upwards progress.

Many times before in history, humans have experience affluence and many times before has that affluence changed into hunger, starvation and population collapse.

The exceptions to this overall pattern are the regions of the world inhabited by stable, and not exponentially growing societies that were able to live within natural limits such as Egypt, China and a number of agrarian and hunter gatherer societies.

I think you need to familiarise yourself with the more recently gained understanding of history as popularised by the Jared Diamond and Ronald Wright.

The only essential difference between 21st century globalised industrial civilisation and past failed civilisations, such as the Mayans, Angkor Wat, the Chaco Anasazi, the Ancient Romans, Greeks and Sumerians, etc, is that we have discovered fossil fuels. When they are exhausted as must occur, probably sooner rather than later -- if runaway global warming or other ecological catastrophes don't destroy us first -- what happened to those past civilisations will also happen to us, that is unless, we don't first quickly change our direction.

*Neo-Malthusianism by Numbers*

As pandemic disease threatens to overtake increasingly plundered, neglected, debt-burdened and speculation-impoverished populations, we need to understand the compatibly murderous and anti-human publicity that would deliberately or unwittingly encourage conditions for such catastrophe. We may call our subject properly "neo-Malthusianism": a revival of the barbaric pseudo-science of Reverend Thomas Malthus, who openly admitted his inspiration from free-trade ideologue Adam Smith. Both Smith and Malthus were paid to train imperialist bureaucrats at the British East Indies Company's Haileybury School. Smith appears most often in today's hegemonic agendas of free-trade imperialism known as "Globalization", but the other colonial-era hireling, Malthus, exerted profound influence on such modern strategic policy as the notorious (and failed) "NSSM 200" of widely recognized war criminal Henry Kissinger from 1974, intended for population reduction throughout the developing world.

Neo-Malthusians express very little critical thought or analysis in their beliefs, despite those beliefs' dangerous, anti-social, spurious and historically discredited qualities. For these reasons we can identify neo-Malthusians as devotees of a "cult". As political ideology, neo-Malthusianism conveys the following delusions and deceptions which combine as a most aggressive threat to the overwhelming majority of humanity...

1. FASCISTIC SENTIMENT. m_i_a's post best expresses the truly callous sentiment inspiring all neo-Malthusians, whether: the aspiring aristocrat daggett; the Dr Frankenstein KAEP in his dungeon of thermodynamic experiments, or; that much more vast Gaia Cult of vague but uniform "Green" fundamentalism and its sinister mix of pseudo-politics with pseudo-religion.

Notice how m_i_a relishes the conjured vision of mass suffering and offers fascistic brutality as a response: "...you will suffer...and I will have NO sympathy for you..."! Such is the petulant savagery and narcissistic delight characteristic of the true fascist's hatred for those who instead want all humanity to multiply and develop to reach their potential through civilization. Neo-Malthusians oppose that progressive ideal here by their view that humans must occupy a portion of the planet only in some fixed ration as befitting beasts i.e., uncreative, irrational, instinctive and uncivilized being, rather like cattle.

[cont.]

Such are the dark, emotional and spiritual aspects of neo-Malthusian ideology, as related closely to their inevitable parallel and ally in murderous social engineering of culling and/or sterilization in the aristocratic quackery of "Eugenics". On (more avowedly) intellectual and philosophical levels, neo-Malthusian dogma's corrupt logic is apparent where believers invoke notions around "economics" and "education" to support their case. As explained in the above introduction, certain ideological compatibilities between neo-Malthusianism and neo-Liberalism can be either deliberately calculated or unwittingly convenient.

2. COVER FOR NEOLIBERALIST POLICY. Firstly, neo-Malthusians uncritically accept equally corrupt liberalist claims around the privatization of infrastructure, and the speculative gambling on energy resources and food, especially. For example of the former, on drought-prone Australia's crucial water infrastructure neo-Malthusians claim that supply is inadequate because of increased population. However, Australian states developed almost no water infrastructure since their water privatization. One prominent illustration is the city of Melbourne's growth from c. 3 million to 4 million people. To credulous, simpleminded onlookers, this would seem a supply problem, as if some "law" of "supply-demand" actually operated.

But no such law operates when water supply is made into a traded and profit-speculated commodity like any other, rather than the freely available, state-supplied socio-economic lubricant that it was before privatization, developed in accordance with the needs of the population. Exaggeration and outright falsification of "drought" around water supply all help bolster the corrupt causes of usurious investors and lazy, irresponsible state apparatchiks alike. By such people's fraudulent claims in media publicity, greed and irresponsibility are not the issues. Neo-liberalist frauds - like their neo-Malthusian accomplices - claim that any water shortages must be the consumers' fault for merely existing and trying to use the resource as before!

3. MISREPRESENTATION OF SPECULATIVE EFFECTS. In more traditionally "private enterprise" sectors, the phenomena are much the same. Neo-Malthusians invariably lean on fervent beliefs in notions of "peak oil", "peak grain" and even "peak minerals". Such beliefs should not surprise given that prevailing liberalist and monetarist economics all emphasize the process of traded *values* over actual physical assets and necessary quantities of real commodities.

[cont.]

sooo..its time for a cull?
now?
perhaps your getting your wish in real-time

FLASHBACK..Scientist?..calls for..death to humanity..[gets standing ovation..[so suspect their serious this time]..the mex are dropping like flies reportedly..[even alex/jones is getting a cough..yeah me too]

AINT IT GREAT as we talk the-plan_goes_down]..but its taking out the healthy..[not babies]..that get reducated by the old also not dying,..neat eh
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/articles/2006apr15_s.html

anyhow the survivors will have their global warning tax
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/gore-cant-remember-if-he-worked-with-ken-lay-on-the-carbon-tax-credits-plan-in-1997/

those face/masks dont do nothing..i recall the indians were given smallpox laced blankets[..virus are very small]expect the docters to wear particle/masks at least..[but the plan might well be that the docters die off later from their inoculations..[of cancer..[heck..you swallowed the lie of 19,000 deaths from the act of smoking,..[we didnt do autopsies in the good times..[why would they in a pandemic?

face/masks dont filter out micro-bugs]..didnt work for mexico,..did it?..[when you see the face masks go home or calmly take them/then go lie down at home..[whats the case fatality rate..[what races]..watch for racists killing mexicans..lol

anyhow the advice is wear your silver[much like when jews took their gold i guess]..sort of enritches the people going to bury many of us http://colloidalsilversecrets.blogspot.com/2009/04/colloidal-silver-and-swine-flu-7.html

so who knows at least the carers get some wealth before they die..[too]..anyhow take the lead from our past

http://www.rense.com/general74/amak.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkzUGguIKWA
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=92842&sectionid=3510212
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/simon-carr/simon-carr-we-must-be-gullible-to-keep-listening-to-these-scares-1674766.html

i guess i would say its the cry wolf sin-drone,as i got a sniffle i presume it was something in the water..[im one of them homebound blogger nutters[who was dna tested,the last 3 times i was arrested,..anyhow as i blogged let me one of the first to go,..this isnt a case where survival;proves anything

its worth noting DONT panic
[remember those riot police will be on angel dust[tamilflue]..lol

anyhow i turned from news radio to easy listening music..speculation[or anger]is futile..[forgive them..[us]lord we know not what we do..lol..know this is satans realm[.the next is according as we did in this one[love is all we need][work not for the goods of the flesh]

http://whatreallyhappened.com/ http://www.prisonplanet.com/#
http://www.prisonplanet.com/flashback-another-flu-pandemic-causing-accident-occurred-in-2005.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-warns-swine-flu-scare-will-be-used-as-precedent-for-more-big-government.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/container-carrying-swine-flu-virus-explodes-on-swiss-train.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/facemasks-could-make-swine-flu-pandemic-worse.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/fda-approves-emergency-measures-for-mass-dosing-of-us-citizens.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/baxter-gilead-make-money-from-swine-flu.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/flu-fears-dampen-talk-of-tentative-world-recovery.html

lol..what use guilt/and wealth without health..[or open shops to spend it in]..who needs workers/when the'work's..done..lol

<”This is quite interesting. Does anyone else think that the unsustainable unpeople unaustralia lobby are acting like a cult? Text book group think. Bader Meinhoff, Red Brigades, the Weathermen - actually these guys are probably pinups for the anti-growth, anti-capitalism, anti-women, anti-society lobby.”>

Cults are associated with religious beliefs, over population unlike religion, is a fact. I doubt you could put curtailing population in the category of anti-women, it's those who advocate more people and are anti prevention and abortion who display the most anti women attributes. When you look at how beliefs supporting unfettered population growth see women and how they subjugate women, I don't think you know what your talking about Cheryl, unless you're a practising sadomasochist.