Gee Phil thanks I allready felt 10/10 now I feel exuberant , what a great little Ozzie I am I am !

Hi Phil,

Now watch the fundamentalist nutters come out of the woodwork to decry the bleeding obvious as manipulated bullderdash.

All the while their leaders grow from rich to richer by preying on the fears of their followers, increasing their guilt complexes manyfold, creating division, havoc and hostility all in the name of God.

Only yesterday, the American Bishops issued a statement condemning Reiki and its practitioners and warning Catholics to stay away from what was in their perception a cult of evil. This fast on the heels of the Pope on AIDS prevention and condoms.

I think God must be laughing at these mortals' senseless and often childish attempts to read her/is mind.

The article did a good job of convincing me secular societies tend to be healthier by most measures. He didn't do a very good job of showing whether it was the cause, or the effect.

If their is a strong, rich central government to look after you in times of need, it hardly seem worth the effort to go to church, does it? We in richer countries have the dole, insurance, the SES, free health services, soup kitchens, free housing. In the poorer communities these things don't exist. If you are lucky you have a strong community you can fall back on in hard times. The usual way we humans to build up such a community is via the local church.

If that is what happens you would expect to see strong involvement in religion where there is no central society to rely upon. Where the government provides such support you might expect to see involvement in organised religion wither away over time.

In short: if the article sought to show that organised religion causes poor social health, it failed.

rstuart,

Agreed, there appears to be a strong correlation, however cause and effect is difficult to determine in this study. Your comment reminds me of Marx's aphorism that "religion is the opium of the people".

The belief that religion is necessary for morality was refuted, long ago, by classical philosophers.

The author’s premise is false and his logic faulty.

Jerry Falwell speaks for only an extreme minority of Christians, and his view are hardly shared by leaders of other faiths. Very few mainstream religious leaders would assert anything like the strong correlation between societal health and religious observance that the author requires to set up his straw man. On these pages, Peter Sellick has argued against the idea that the purpose of faith is to make us good.

Even if the article's premise were not false, as other posters have pointed out, its argument is a blatant example of the logical fallacy of "non causa pro causa” - assuming correlation equals causation. Rstuart and mac are right.

The secular countries listed have higher per-capita greenhouse gas emissions than the global average - does this mean that agnosticism makes you environmentally irresponsible?

Many have above-average rates of suicide - does that mean that lack of faith makes you miserable?

Rich western countries have relatively high obesity rates – does atheism make you fat?

The secular countries listed also have higher divorce rates, internet usage, urban population concentrations, and a host of other welfare indicators, some positive, some negative. Few if any are likely to be caused by the prevalence or otherwise of religious beliefs.

Hi,

I'm not sure where the list presented in the article was retrieved from, but in february the results of a global study carried out by Gallup Poll came out. Here's the list of most and least religious countries in the world: http://www.gallup.com/poll/114211/Alabamians-Iranians-Common.aspx

Estonia is the least religious country in the world, partly as a result of the Soviet legacy, but more often due to never really accepting Christian faith when it was imposed on them in the 13th century. They might have went to church for some centuries, but at the end of the day, when they wanted good weather or their crops not to fail, they still hugged a tree or a stone and wished for the best (metaphorically speaking).