Grim, virgin births are a dime a dozen in heroic-mythological circles.

In fact, legends of virgin births are so common (Sargon, Mithras, Zoroaster, Gautama Buddha, just to name a few) that some Christian missionaries were led to wonder if the Devil had gone before them, muddying the waters by sowing "false" legends of virgin births, so that their "one, true" legend of a virgin birth would be disbelieved.

And runner ... are you forgetting Lazarus?

Your spirituality is about relationships with people.Belief in God is irrelevant.Belief in god is narcisstic since we are assume that we are all important.

Just listening to George Pell tonight repulsed me.The religious jackals are at it again,preying on those who fall on hard times.Our hell will be the religious halcyon days.People will swap debt slavery for religious slavery.You don't have to believe in Yahweh,Allah or Jesus to be a worthwhile human being.

Runner,

I know it is Easter but it also the Pentacost - the alleged slaying of all first-born Egyptians in Moses' time but I had to question your 10 points.

1. Some people state that Matthew's writer in particular went back through the old teachings and because of his love for the Jesus story aligned the alleged prophecies corruptly.

Whilst the exact dates of the writing of the gospels is unknown some suggest they were written prior 70AD because they don't mention the Temple in Jerusalem's destruction which occurred in that year. 68CE is one guess.

Many believe Mark was the first gospel written and if this is true Matthew is alleged to have been copied from Mark with a few additions. The virgin birth does not appear in Mark OOPs!

If Matthew was first like some believe ...Why would Mark leave out the virgin birth if copied from Matthew?

2. The claim that the disciples abandoned Jesus is wrong. They fell asleep prior to his arrest but that is hardly abandoning. Peter allegedly denied knowing him 3 times and without poor Judas being allegedly used by God - the crucifixion wouldn't have occurred.

3. Jesus said John 10:30 "I and my Father are one"

John 14:28 "...I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Which one is true? OOPs

4. If Jesus isn't God you maybe correct, however, if Jesus is God then he ordered many OT atrocities eg. Numbers 31:13-18, or the passover Exodus 12:29-31. Is killing a sin?

5. I might agree, except a reasonable person would teach many of these things without being a God.

6. Science calls a conscience "a conscience" - problem solved!

7. Would God be proud that many creationists argue that Cain had an incest with an unmentioned sister?

8. Depending on when the books were written this could be correct.

9. Do you blame your wife for all the sins you have committed Adamic Runner?...lol

10. How many athiests/agnostics do wonderful things through a compassionate heart NOT an obligation to God... Is an athiest helping others vanity?

OOps did I say Pentacost... OMG I'm shocked

Of course I meant Passover.... Double OOps

But it does give me a chance to say more on the Passover.

Why would anyone want to celebrate such a story?

Seeing we are in the period of Passover (9th - 15th), although Jews commence it on the evening of the 8th) it is a great time to ask yourselves "Could my allegedly loving God have ordered these things?"

Exodus 7:2-3 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

So on it went with God (your Bible said it not me) hardening Pharaoh's heart through plagues of - Blood, Frogs, Gnats, Flies, Death of Animals, Hail, Locusts, Darkness and then finally the killing of all the first born of Egypt. Exodus 7-12

How could a loving God who created us all equal, all from Adam and Eve, then go and kill so many innocents (who were still his children) when he had deliberately and intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart, so Pharoah couldn't let the Israelites go?

The Bible sure presents a strong case for a loving, compassionate caring God! NOT!

With all this ugliness I think people should be thrilled that Atheists and Agnostics are so peaceful and take out their frustrations by writing books and blogging.

If there is a God, he surely couldn't have done such a horrid act as this or the flood of Noah! Could he?

If you are a Christian who believes in God's goodness & grace you really only have two options.

1. Treat the Bible with contempt, as a book written by man and worship your God as an intelligent being who would never have allowed such horrors,

OR

2. Keep your head in the sand and continue to blaspheme by allowing this sacrilege to be taught.

This is my friendly letter to those who are religious amongst us

<<Well in actual fact it is easier to believe the One who never lied than those who have a blind faith in evolution and global warming and then call it science.>>

Sorry, runner, you wrote "blind faith" where I'm sure you meant "recognition of overwhelming evidence".

“I haven’t seen any articles by ‘runner’ so I don’t see a need to defend any particular comments he’s made—though, FWIW I think his ‘apologetics’ claims are often overstated, perhaps even more than the recent post by ‘stormbay’ moving in the opposite direction.”

My post is not overstated, but a clinical analysis using available evidence. I replied to this thread because someone asked for a psychological assessment of it. Denial of fact and reality is common within the human race, no matter what their belief.

I find discussions about god boring, anyone with half a brain can read the verifiable history and dismiss the belief as primitive fear and superstition. if you haven't evolved beyond this infantile understanding and paranoia, to bad, you missing out, as life is much more interesting and responsible without it.

Psychiatric institutions and practises are overflowing with people in serious psychological trouble because of their belief in god. From my years of clinical experience, the break down would be 80% religious problems, 5% substance abuse, 10% social or relationship, 5% chemical and physiological imbalance. An interesting statistic is the number of religious believers who require long term psychotropic suppression to function, compared to non believers, the ratio is about 80 -1.