Graham,

Did you just put your foot in it and not realise it yet?

1. If you believe the Passover is a load of codswallop please have the courage to say it... but don't play the OT & NT game, it’s flawed.

OR 2. If you believe that God killed all the firstborn of Egypt please tell us!

AND 3. If you believe in the trinity…that God, Jesus and Holy Spirit are one entity, aren't you saying Jesus ordered these atrocities?

Churches teach the OT Graham, many teach Jesus is God! The NT often refers to the OT. Christians trap themselves!

When will Christians know their bibles?

I've explained this elsewhere but I'll try once again.

Either Jesus' word is correct and Graham is wrong OR Graham is correct and Jesus is wrong!

Jesus, (Matthew 5:17-20), empowers the law of Moses & the prophets plus unequivocally states in verse 18 "As long as heaven and earth last, not the least point nor the smallest detail of the law will be done away with...."

It varies slightly from version to version but Jesus explicitly empowers the OT.

He mentions the laws of the prophets (ie Moses etc) plus the commandments!...So all Moses' laws apply even the ugly ones eg. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 So much for that superceding argument!

Moses also allegedly wrote the Torah (1st 5 Books) If you have doubts about Moses, good for you, but the NT still creates big problems!

Jesus allegedly celebrated the Passover, so he allegedly believed it! Wasn't the last supper the passover meal? Matthew 26:17

If I can’t cherrypick then can you? Whose picking on Christians – I’m trying to educate them!

I don’t notice any hatred against Christians by atheists – Atheists never threaten hellfire and damnation Graham–do they? They generally don’t hate homosexuals! Yes Graham, Revelations is a NT book as are the backward teachings of Paul eg.1 Timothy 2 11-12! Ask your wife about Paul’s oppression of a whole gender Graham!

Oh also - I'm not an Atheist!

Opinionated 2

con't

9. Do you blame your wife for all the sins you have committed Adamic Runner?...lol

I would like to but I think you have missed the point. Every man and woman has the adamic nature despite what many feminist and courts would have us believe

10. How many athiests/agnostics do wonderful things through a compassionate heart NOT an obligation to God... Is an athiest helping others vanity?

Probably many athiests/agnostics do wonderful things. That was never in question. As to their motives you will need to speak to them. At the end of the day every thing is vanity if there is no god.

You write

'I don’t notice any hatred against Christians by atheists'
Where have you been hiding all your life. The mocking of Christians and their beliefs are a national sport for the national broadcasters. Ask Fred Nile what it is like to have urine over him by athiests and agnostics because he expressed a different point of view albeit peacefully. As for hellfire it would be a pretty sad Christian who did not try and rescue a fellow human being from an eternity in hell. This is far more compassionate than pretending it does not exist therefore calling Jesus a liar. I know no Christians who hate homosexuals. Along with other sinful behaviour they dislike what they do and the fruit of their deeds.

In the end it matters not what you believe,but how you treat your fellow man.

Metaphoricly i see a lot of'closet-gays'..[or is the'proper'term penus-envey]..were i as literate as many of the responses here i would use more clever words

but..lest_i_be_judged by_the_same/measure,...will speak in generalities,..to no-one in particular,..3/4 's of your posts claim'a-theism'..are you so'literate'you cant claim your own word?..[i am a thiest]..[your claim to be'athiest'is an absurdity]

you judge religions by the extreem's you fixate on as being religion.[there are good and bad in all religions,..to judge the whole by a minority,is plainly absurd]

there is a god..[for those who believe..[as well as those who think they dis-believe..[dorkins is as much a'god'to you athiest's..as'jesus'..is a god to many xtians..[or'mahamoud'..a god to many muslims..[or'budda'etc...[they are all figure heads..for your beliefs..you vairiously hold religiously

yes there is a god...[but he does not seek to change our freewill..

[it is not him to blame for your love of the vile,..he is a god of love...[the living loving love,..that allows you to believe[to love]ANYTHING you like

[totally unconditional[totally gracefull,..he dont judge you..just as you do not judge a field of flowers

never the less you have in mind an absent god..[a wrathfull delusion of god]..its time you understood god lives ever in LIVE TIME[all the time in this ever now LIVING MOMENT..not in dead/books..nor dead/works

god live inside you..inside all life..[sustaining our every breath sustaining your every heart beat]..giving logus[logic to your every living thought..

..[know the voice of your god is all the good thought..[every good wisper your mind did hear]..all good comes from the living good[god]

but freewill allows you also to hear.;.[then chose to do]the most vile..because gods good love is sustaining life]..he sustains but to prove your own freewil choice he allows your choice to do the most vile..[such is his unconditional love,..see you not he gives even the most vile their life?

evil allows the freewill chosing to be doing of good,!

..in truth only the good has reality,..see that resisting the evil is the best we can chose to do..[in our own time..[especially the resisting of the evil in ourselves]..judge not others..[it joins you to their vile]

good is all good...[all god]

One Under God,

You certainly seem to have an imitate knowledge of ‘God’.
--"he(?) is a god of love"
--"god lives ever in LIVE TIME"
--"god live inside you..inside all life"
--"good is all good...[all god]"

All previous posters have been up front their inspirational sources, either Christians(The Bible), Muslims(The Koran), "Dorkin"[ites](The God Delusion).What is the source of your knowledge?

Try to be specific now …don't give us rambling generalizations about the balance-of-nature but, rather, a source book we can all peruse .

Gan bei!

Opinionated2, you cannot read the bible as literal history. Not everything that Jesus is reported as saying is perfectly consistent. Sometimes when you look at the context he is being deliberately evasive because someone is trying to trap him. Read the gospels in context it is clear that Jesus does not believe that all of the laws apply, and that his followers didn't either.

To take one instance - the woman caught in adultery who is to be stoned to death. He stares down those who would execute her in accordance with the law using the famous phrase "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." When the crowd disperses he says to her words to the effect of "Where are those who accused you?" She replies that they have gone. And then he says "Neither do I accuse you. Go and sin no more".

Do I believe that God killed the first born of every Egyptian family? No. But 2000 years ago that might have seemed a just proposition. Should I discard the bible because it was written in a different age? No. We still read Aristotle even though he was wrong about a huge number of things.

Fractelle, you appear to be saying that Christians aren't entitled to allow their own opinions to inform their public arguments. You apparently want to privilege your own opinions over those of others. That would seem to me to deny Christians a right. We live in a democracy where we allow everyone to express an opinion, no matter how mad we might think it, as long as it does not unreasonably interfere with the rights of others.

I favour reasonably freely available abortion, but I don't deny Pell and Abbott the right to their own opinions. I don't approve of infanticide and I think there is a legitimate argument about when abortion becomes infanticide. It's not even a religious argument at all. If we presume to outlaw infanticide, then we have to have a debate about abortion. Abortion is not prima facie some inalienable right of the mother.