Dear BushBonker, it's Savage Pencil not savage garden if you please!!

Also, if you were going to be truthful, I think you stand 100% corrected not "semi-corrected". And to repeat again for your benefit, Abdullah Saeed was speaking to Geraldine Doogue on Sunday Profile in his role as an academic. And it's on that basis that I will take him as an authority when he speaks of community in regards to Muslims in this country

dear pencil, sorry for the misnaming. honest, and odd, mistake.

you want me to stand 100% corrected? if you want, ok. i regard it as minor. you seem to be using point-scoring to ignore the substance of my post.

Leigh, I have been in two minds waiting for your answer concerning my query about how well you are, after your nasty estimation about my true character.

As a matter of fact, Leigh, I wondered why our OLO bosses did not get onto you, knowing that I could have you up for "Character Assassination".

Further, I must say that you have not been the only one, in fact, another two.

One not so bad being Paul'l, but bad enough, and the other a similar type to you, Leigh, and I wonder sometimes if it was you under another Code-name.

Now must say Paul'l does not like me because he says I hate Israel.

But as I keep telling him, I don't hate Jews, because some were with us in WW2, and we got on well boozing together and so on. Also got on well with Jew woolbuyers even when arguing on wool prices.

But what I do not like as a historian is the way Palestinian Arabs seem to be regarded as low-life by the Israelies, when the Israelies obviously as seemingly more intelligent should know better.

Furthermore, the Israelies should have known better than to go militarily atomic, made worse by the way they treated Mordecai who obviously to our minds seemed the most intelligent.

There is nothing left-wing about this type of thinking, either, Leigh, as I've told Paul'l, but straight down the centre.

But just be careful about predicating another's character, Leigh, or you might find yourself behind bars.

But I must say though hurt, I've no hate for you, just wondering what sort of family man you are?

Hope you get better,

BB, WA

For Cam?

Must say I am not very happy to have to do this, but here goes to prove my status -

From Curtin University, as part of a mixed Post Grad Social Science Diploma, including Australian political history, American political history, Indian political history, and general global history and politics.

The 'A Land in Need' trilogy on WA history since the first landing, becoming a local good seller, and still to be found on Google.

After the above was asked by the Mandurah U3A, to take groups on the History of Western Philosophy and Science, taking over from Professor Mahony who unfortunately had died, myself taking such groups for 13 years until my wife died nearly three years ago.

Must say the material for the just above, was thankfully supplied free from Murdoch University.

Not bad, I might say from one whose first job after being pulled out of school in 1932 was driving a wagon.team.

I'm not sure about you, Cam, but it seems the ones who want to get rid of me are mostly those who don't like me trying to be a bit kinder to the Arabs et al.

But all I can say, if Middle East problems do cause a major war, you can bet your life, an over-cocky
little nuclear Israel could very much help start it.

BushBasher - I haven't ignored the substance of your post but can I point out to you that the fact that I had to correct you on several occasions means that you had pretty much ignored the substance of my initial post.

Your point was that: "I think the much more important point is that, whatever "Muslim community" means, nasty mysogynistic twits like Hilaly do not automatically represent members of this community. (e.g. any more than rule-bound homophobic bigots like Pell automatically represent a given Christian, or even a given Catholic). Whatever "Muslim community" may mean, it is no excuse for the nasty, obtuse, insulting use of "they" by posters such as Leigh. This group guilt stuff is silly and boring".

OK, I will agree whole-heartedly that group guilt stuff is silly and in my opinion, nasty as well. However I think that the Orientalist theme that David Chibo has pursued in this article is a very weak or one-sided argument, especially when compared to the nasty group guilt stuff that is espoused by opinion leaders in much of the Middle East against Jews and other non-Muslims. As you probably already know, there you will find some of the nastiest anti-Semitic rants that have been uttered since the downfall of the Third Reich. And let's not forget what is said about or done to homosexuals in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Also, what Chibo's article overlooks is that Danny Nalliah was basically "flayed alive" in many of the comments that The Brisbane Times allowed readers to post on their website in regard to this story. While a few at the beginning were supportive of him, after that the comments were running at more than 90% against him with viewpoints like this - "Comments are in extreme bad taste. Sounds to me like another Religious Nut using this as an excuse to throw his propaganda in everyone's face." - being fairly typical.

Thankfully, Australians tend not to like "religous nuts" of any persuasion - Christian or Muslim.

ah, savage pencil you still can't resist starting with a little bit of point scoring. still, it seems to me we substantially agree.

however your criticisms of chibo seem off the point. i'm certainly not going to argue against the nastiness and the anti-semitism rife in the middle east. but this doesn't relate closely to a comparison of the coverage in australia of nalliah and hilali.

also the fact that most australians, christians or otherwise, correctly write nalliah off as a nutter is off the point. the question is, is hilali reported or viewed as representing islam more than nalliah ditto christianity? the second question is, if so, is that fair and accurate?