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The Forum > Article Comments > She just wanted the violence to stop > Comments

She just wanted the violence to stop : Comments

By Stephen Hagan, published 24/2/2009

Mick Dodson: 'As Indigenous people it is sad that even if we haven’t personally experienced violence, ... we know somebody ... who has.'

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People of any culture or ethnicity could say exactly the same thing about violence, so there is nothing significant or especially important when Mick Dodson says it.

Stephan Hagan is fast running out of ‘differences’ between indigenes and others to exploit, it seems.

It’s not surprising that Hagan was surprised to be asked by Macklin to go along to an indigenous violence-fest. He admits to not having experience violence, and he hardly lives like the ancestors of the indigenes where the violence is said to occur. He says that he wasn’t suited to take the place of a person more experienced in violence, but he managed to allow himself to be talked out of turning down the invitation. Not surprisingly, the “unorthodox approach” came up with the “big picture” approach”.

Remember Keating’s “big pictures” – euphemisms for doing nothing but waffle?

Black domestic violence is no different from white domestic violence, apart from the fact that white women (occasionally white men) can receive help more readily because they live in an open society with more help and policing than is available in camps, which hang onto their secret ways; we are still hearing complaints about ‘intervention’, remember.

The obvious answer, as with all ‘aboriginal’ problems, is to get these people out of their separation in the wilderness, and start giving them the opportunity to live decent lives like the rest of us.
Posted by Leigh, Tuesday, 24 February 2009 10:35:28 AM
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Leigh's cynical dismissal of Hagan's piece is unwarranted. Mick Dodson's speech was a landmark on the road to Aboriginal men's willingness to admit and confront major problems that are endemic in their peer group.

Whether Leigh likes it or not, there are some differences that have to be acknowledged, such as the group identity & shared history of Indigenous people in Australia (i.e. the discriminatory & neglectful treatment of them under most of the colonial & settler administrations & legal systems, their demonisation and rejection by many settlers throughout Australia's early history, the divestment of their hereditary domains, their marginalisation & difficult economic circumstances, the rejection of their aspirations throughout much of the 20th century), as well as their varied but similar hunter-gatherer social structures and cultures, and their languages and outlooks.

That's just a few of the obvious "differences", most of which continue to impact on our national life, but most directly on the descendants of the first Australians.

Hagan's article is an excellent contribution to the developing determination by some Aboriginal men to confront some of the deepest & most difficult problems within their group.

Hagan should be applauded for making the psychologically & politically painful effort to grapple with this complex subject & share his thoughts and information with us.

Thank you Stephen, for having the guts to talk to us about it. Don't let the grumpy old Leighs of this world get your spirits down.
Posted by Dan Fitzpatrick, Tuesday, 24 February 2009 11:16:53 PM
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Like Dan, I was very cheered by this article. It's always been my contention that committees and plans and products which by-pass those who are actually in it up to the neck are both unrealistic and counter-productive. Perhaps real things will start to happen when real people are consulted.

The point about people beginning to have more confidence in the police was well taken. One realises that it is incidents such as these, rendered into official statistics,that are liable to mis-interpretation. Having someone present to "interpret" is invaluable.

Yes, and thanks also to Steven for keeping us au fait with developments: its good to have some positive feedback to balance the "Well, what can you do?" mentality.
Posted by Romany, Wednesday, 25 February 2009 1:29:08 AM
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“Aboriginal social organisation was highly complicated, their religion deep and complex, their art and myths rich and varied” {Tatz, 1999}. Elders, guided or led the ceremony and law that was used to maintain relationships and resolve conflict between people and country. All people being intrinsically equal, men and women had independent and an interdependent responsibilities in maintaining the social order . Integral to the maintenance of social order is connectedness and respect to country and kin.

It is unreasonable to think of a society without conflict but social structures were in place for resolution of conflict, in the form of closely controlled combat sport that rarely ended with injury or death {Atkinson, 2002}. Large scale battles that ceased if men on either side were seriously hurt, were documented by Stanner, who also noted that “the ties that bound overrode the conflicts that divided {Atkinson, 2002 }.
“Patterns of social interaction were tightly prescribed, co-operation within each group was high, and group sanctions, by way of punishment for breach of rules, were harsh” {Tatz.

The first evidence of death by spearing in Australia was when archaeologists uncovered the remains of a man who had been ritually killed and left unburied, 4000 years ago. In Australia, there has been earlier evidence of injury from conflict, some that caused death, but not that of a ritual killing {ANU 2008). Any misconceptions of prehistory Australia as a violent society must undoubtedly be challenged by this recent discovery.

The crime of rape, or the forcible taking a child away from parents incurred the punishment of death by spearing, enforced by the tribe collectively and “unnatural offences including criminal assault on children are unknown” ( Roth cited in Robertson, 2000 }. The system of kinship, reciprocity, and child-rearing provided a “strong and foolproof system of incest prohibition” {Tatz, 1999 }.

Roth was Qld protector of Aboriginals in 1901. From many accounts, this was a highly civil society.
Posted by Aka, Wednesday, 25 February 2009 12:22:59 PM
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Bess and David Price have lived in Alice Springs for a while, go read their letters to Alice Springs News

Searchable Archive: http://www.alicespringsnews.com.au/archive.html

They are worth reading.
Posted by polpak, Friday, 27 February 2009 10:59:14 AM
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