I agree with you Brett. I'm retired and do some of my volunteer work in nursing homes, and I can assure you that there is no way I want to end up in a nursing home, waiting for the inevitable. I define life as quality and dignity and when they go, what's the use of quantity with no quality. Like you, when all quality is gone from my life, I hope I don't need to travel to get the drugs to end my life.

My mother had lost all quality of life as in her early 90's she had severe RA and OA, had had numerous mini-strokes, was almost blind and deaf, had severe osteoporosis and was immobile. She tried to end her life, leaving a note saying she was 'sound of mind but unsound of body.' Then insisted in reviving her so she was forced to spend her last few weeks in a nursing home but refused medication when she got pneumonia. My mother had led an active and fulfilled life and should have been able to choose to leave this life when her quality of life was gone

Well said..I agree wholeheartedly.....

But be prepared for a barrage from the bible jockeys,rights to lifers,creationists and general god botherers.
In the past I have responded to the issue of our rights to choose our time and place of dying in a reasoned manner but I don't feel inclined to continue to repeat myself. Anyone who is interested can read my past contributions under maracas.
The irony of it all is that whereas our society might criminalise suicide for whatever reason. The society can do bugger all to punish you if you decide to take your own life but punish anyone who assists as some misguided act of revenge.

Spot on.

It's time to decriminalise voluntary suicide.

And it's time to allow people to acquire the necessary exit

medication if and when they want it.

Life is precious, but when we are unable to particpate in life, it is our individual right to say thank you and leave.

Suicide is a topic that scares most people into silence. It terrifies people as they don't understand it or even want to know. But they sure as hell want to stop people who choose that.

I don't know why there is even a discussion as far as those terminally ill and/or in endless pain and losing their faculties. What right has anyone got to force them to continue suffering? It makes as much sense as when you could go to jail for a failed suicide attempt.

That was like saying "You failed! Now we'll show you what misery is really like". It's a weird society, that's for sure. People with no empathy, no understanding. Until it's their turn when they suddenly recant. Of course there's another whole range of suicides that we don't want to talk about isn't there. People who have just had enough suffering even though they may not be terminally ill etc.

People with depression. Yes many have short bouts and want out and later are glad they didn't. But there are many who have depression for life and just keep going through the lows with some relief and then back down again. Endlessly and pointlessly as they are not going to be "cured". I know, I'm one such.

I choose to live every time but if anyone reading this has experienced a period of just over 3 months when suicide was all your mind could see and think of 24/7 then you'd understand why many want an end to that pain.

I chose to live every time as I've seen the devastation suicide can cause to a family. It's like throwing a stone into a calm pond. The ripples just go on and on. From generation to generation too often. My children and that are why I choose to live and I deal with this Ok these days. Some good days, lots of Ok and some terrible etc.

But I'm lucky, I had a reason to live. Many don't and they too should have a choice other than driving into a truck or extreme self harm.

it is interesting to note that the suicide rate is three times the road toll

yet speeders get fines [and attempting to suicide get off scott free]
[financially] but you watch states will be exposaed to be proffiteering

[they [govt]wont be able to resist taxing us for 'risk behaviour' [much like a speed fine [but with every drink over a mandated limit they [we] get a speed[type] fine [for trying to hasten our death]

allready they have the stealth version of it via the health act[see constitutionally govt cant regulate our use of 'drugs' [but under the health act [designed to cover HEALTH worker's] police can police the axt as a crime [despite no clear victim[le4gally a criminal act needs a victim[no victim no crime]but they will figure a way round that

beatie rewrote the constitution into an act[lol] [act 70 of 2002]
to somehow double these fines on deemed crimes [raising near 100 million each year [from only 48,000 queenslanders CRIMINALISED by their own govt]a clear case of discriminisation , yet descrimation services wont cover the issue

anyhow killing anything is morally wrong
and allowing sufference is torture
thus many injections in hospitals are employed in the dark of night
[thats why ab-origonals hate hos-pit-als]

it should come as no supprise that many 'deaths in custody ' are deemable as suicide[mates investigate mates then if needed the boys club [the sold out legal system,] sets them free [when its ruled as suicide]

yes talking about suicide is taboo
because many arnt

but hey govt is your friend
cops are there to protect you[lol]
courts are about criminals [not criminalisation]
but hey we [they] will find a way to tax you
right into your grave
because we are the problem [not you]

The problem is that very often the decision to commit suicide is driven by depression which could be treated if other people cared enough or were informed enough about how to help. How many of you have never contemplated ending it at some time of stress?. Also too many of the publicised events of people suiciding because of disease are promoted by those who benefit either financially or publically by the death. Yes, in a perfect world suicide would be promoted as an option but given the reality of the world we live in it is not an option that can be accepted as normal. I have friends who are dying of a variety of painful and in some cases embarrassing diseases but they are facing up to that challenge as they have faced up to the challenges of life. Is it too difficult to accept in our chrome plated world that some people are sick and not in control of all their functions or faculties? Are they less human because of that? Do we want the old,frail and sick to be encouraged to suicide because they are an embarrassment to us who are perfect in body and mind?.

ORAMZI: "The problem is that very often the decision to commit suicide is driven by depression"

The article was about voluntary euthanasia - not suicide in the general population. Can you give any examples (with supporting links) of where voluntary euthanasia simply because the person was depressed?

Lets make it clear that the issue is not simply about the semantic difference between euthanasia and suicide. Euthanasia is seen as the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of a hopelessly sick or injured individual (as person or domestic animal) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy. Suicide is the act or an instance of taking ones own life voluntarily and intentially especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind. The arguments being presented are about not only helping people suicide but also about promoting suicide and various suicide methods as reasonable options if it all seems too much. And that is the difficulty I have Administration of suicide by government has not had a happy or useful history. The current practices in Australia seem sufficient for the foreseeable future.

ORAMZI: "the difficulty I have Administration of suicide by government has not had a happy or useful history"

I have not heard that before. Could you supply links showing why you think that is the case?

I hope you read my webpage and I hope you also search for other of my debates using the word which I made: girasas.

Due to this conception of mine that a sixth race is half girasas and half human, I am consumed with the contemplation of this issue from every perspective imaginable (obviously as I feel as if I am the only person alive offering any degree of thought at all on the subject and can not find one other writer anywhere who might offer some degree of intellectualizing about it).

One perspective that relates to this topic of suicide is that a girasas is using our body and not just a human. As far as I can discern from reading THE SECRET DOCTRINE, a girasas - (relating the 2nd and 6th races) is currently in its first race state and does not die or engage in birth. Instead the girasas "longs for" or "desires" mortality as this is part of the natural cycle in the 7 races for evolving kingdoms. As the girasas gains more and more control over the vehicles (by taking over from the human), we will be witness to many circumstances that we have not seen play out since the last round. Hopefully, the girasas will care for us and provide us with some degree of form for us to continue to act (in a more limited way). I am hoping that human activities and girasas activities will be endured and not that we ONLY accept human activities replaced by girasas activities.

Regardless of how the two kingdoms interact and choose to act independently of one another, the order of business for the girasas is to create a form where it can experience death (and birth). For the 2nd human race, we read how the human oozes out of the form or buds. In my imagination, I picture this act as resulting in certain death (at first) and then becoming more and more capable of living for a short time.

To get to the point, the girasas is intent upon death (or existing in a form) just as humans were intent upon creating the earth for their evolution and life. The most plausible recourse for a human being who is host to this kingdom living in them is for the human to work for ascension. The goal of humanity of ascension is broad enough to include captivating of the material for the purpose of continuing (after so called death) without actually having to endure death as we know it today. Ascension also covers making ourselves and our world better and providing for the descending kingdom: girasas. As we become better and better at working cooperatively with this kingdom, it should be at our will that we raise the vibration of our material bodies for life in ?an etheric realm? perhaps.

Prior to 1995, I strove adamantly to practice harmlessness. Since 1995, I have not been able to align myself with this commitment due to the extreme nature of my findings and the commitment effort required by me just to continue daily communicating this idea around the internet. Now, I feel as if I hurt many people by talking out about this idea. I am sorry if I hurt you by telling you this, but I want spiritual youth to know about my findings and not to be misled by most of us were into thinking that we could climb into the spiritual state without setback.

To live as half girasas and half human - or as a 6th race or 6th subrace lifeform - we must learn to value what freedom we can find. I especially appreciate the concept of finding freedom from wrongdoing and the opportunity to enlist the aid of this more highly evolved kingdom into providing us with knowledge, information, and improved lives. However, I don't see how any of us can ever forget that it is their love, their sacrifice, and their greater evolution that accomplishes all the good in the world, whereas the human performs error and destruction in comparison

work4phb that sounds like swedenborg>>Wrote Swedenborg in the early stages of his crisis,with reference to a lack of inspiration in what he had formerly written about scientific matters when—he says—he opposed the influx of the Holy Spirit:

A quantity of what I have written must be of the same kind['madness, devoid of all life and connection']... inasmuch as the faults are all my own,but veritates[truths]are not mine.JD 13)

Then,when fully settled into the post-critical stage of his life,reconfirmations of this very'idea'followed one after the other,formulated as can be seen in this paradigmatic example taken from his'first'post-critical work,..Arcana Caelestia..[heavenly/secrets]

(The Heavenly Arcanes):Speaking generally,the case is that no one ever has good and truth which is his own,but all good and truth flow in from the Lord,both immediately,and also mediately through angelic societies.(AC 4151)>>

anyhow he wrote an opus about it[encyclopedia][this quote from http://www.theisticscience.org/blomdahl/Sweden01.htm

worth reading is his heaven and hell,its not as long as his arcana celestia,being a novel made from'his'quoted extracts from the arcana celestia

http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh00toc.html

anyhow'you'seem to be saying the same thing,..anyhow this SCIENTIST talked with angels and they explained much to'him[but angels are adminestered by much the same method

[spirit communication must all ways be veted by our own morality,as spirits are just like us[inbuilt fears;petty hates etc but also capable of much truth[but even wrong headed beliefs[they are after all only human]the thing is we are as we are[in this human flesh we have been'sewn'into[the influx has created the'person'ality'we now are]

regardless of the truth,it is not good for'man'to be alone,i met swedenborgians they are a nice group,but in many other churches,mosques etc i have found the same,

cant wait till'i'meet up with my guardians/protector'angels'[they sent me some wierd energy/imagry]over the years]..but till then i shall do as'my'/in-stinct'advises'me'..[as'my'/free-will'feels best]

veting it though the surity'my'sociaty'will not be held accountable in this realm..[but 'i' will]for now'my'reality is the multitude is'my'multitude of one['me']

ok.'they'dont get the'credit'[but also'they'dont get the blame]lol]

[but'you'will have noticed this topic is'best'not discussed with those'thinking'we are'evolved'from dust]the/material can never understand'spirit'