Dr Lamm seems to ignore two facts which are at the heart of the problem. Firstly the wall is build on Palestinian territory and not Israeli land. If this was the case most of the criticism of the wall would to go away. Why the wall is on Palestinian territory is because of illegal Jewish settlements on Palestinian territory. If they were not there the wall wouldn't be neccessary. The rise of terrorism matches the construction of these settlements and Israel's refusal to stop building them whenever it seeks to reach peace with Palestinians. Even at this moment they are being expanded despite President Bush's roadmap for peace. Israel's mishandling of its occupation of Palestinian land since 1967 War is at the heart of the problem. When these facts are faced as acted upon then peace is more likely and the wall will be unnecessary.

The wall is a necessity, it stopped many terrorist attacks, it saved many lives and continues to do so. However, it should have been built straight over Israel's legal, pre-1967 border.

Israel's government wanted to do just that, but it proved impossible under the pressure of the settlers.

Never mind, a second wall can still be built, this time right where it should be, then the settlers, which Israel has no power to remove, can be left to their own devices between those two walls. What happens subsequently between those zealots and the natives which they oppress need not be Israel's business. Israelis have suffered long enough from both the settlers as well as the world's criticism that resulted from their behaviour - no more!

Israel’s problem is that the state was built on irrational religious/emotional grounds and to solidify their claims it needed Zealots. Now the dogs having tasted blood/success want more.
As such the state of Israel is a victim of its own making (both internally and externally.)

This DOESN’T mitigate or trivialize the actions of the Arabs and their proxy war of fear. Fear of the very zealots that are driving Israel.

Their propaganda/actions that they claim justifies the continuing land grab and subjugation by denying the very same rights they demand…The right to exist as a sovereign nation and protect them selves.

The Arabs must wonder where will this land grab end Iran/Iraq? Especially since Israel is politically unable/unwilling to control it settlers and has the bomb. They reasonable worry must be how long before the inmates control the asylum. If I had that on my border I too would probably turn paranoid and act accordingly as would most of us.

The real victims are the average reasonable Israeli and Palestinian.
Am I Anti-Semitic? Hardly. Israel needs to look at it’s self and put out a consistent message of “live and let live” by controlling/moving the more contentious settlements and negotiate in good faith with ALL parties including the Arab states. The wall doen't solve the problem it simply kettles them begging a more serious cycle of manifestations of the discontent and further internecine deterioration of the state to what?

What these comments seem to conveniently forget is that there is no formal recognized Palestinian land becauase for the last 60 years successive Palestinian leaders have rejected the 2-state solution and the opportunity for them to have a state. Remember the Khartoum Concference following the 1967 war when Israel tried to negotiate land for peace? The 3 no's resulted - no recognition of Israel, no peace with Israel and no negotiation with Israel. This is not a conflict about land - it's about values.
There is no difference between Palestinian terorrists and the terrorists killing Australians and Westerners in Mumbai right now. Or the terrorists who killed an Aussie soldier in Afghanistan yesterday. Wake up! If you were unfortunate enough to have been caught up in the terror in Mumbai with a western passport, do you think you would have been spared?

While being ethically odious the wall stops people being killed.

The question is really where it goes and determining what is Israel and what is palestine.

What must be truely worrying to propagandists like Danny Lamm is that in forums like this over the past couple of years there have been fewer and fewer people supporting his views, more and more people critical of them and less and less people reading his articles.

On the other hand articles critical of Isreal are far more popular, have more supportive comments for the views of the Palestinians and more criticism and and negative comments about the Israelis.

It looks to me the propaganda war is largely lost by Israel and truth and decency will now forge ahead.

The Jewish state of Israel is becoming increasingly ugly to more and more people all the time.

I'd say the Palestinians will take huge advantage of that fact as it becomes more widely recognised and Israel is now threatened with destruction, not by it's enemies, but by it's own unreasonable attitudes and actions.

Wake up fellas before it's all over...especially since the US dollar is about to dry up...

Dr Lamm (The Dentist) has certainly done his level best to ensure that the Teflon image of Israel remain untarnished. One wonders why exactly Israel and its international agents have to try so hard to defend its actions? In the past week there have been a litany of pro-Israel advertorials in The Australian by Janet Albrechtsen & Rebecca Weisser (Albrechtsen went to Israel on the NSW Jewish Board of Deputies & Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs ticket and Weisser on Australia/Israel Jewish Affairs Councils’). The Sydney Morning Herald didn’t miss-out. Well known pro-Israel scribe, Paul Sheehan too travelled, but did not disclose his benefactor.

Surely if a state operated within the parameters of international law and moral responsibility, then such blatant misrepresentations would not be necessary. Clearly, pro-Palestine groups do not have the funds, nor the clout to concoct such missions to ensure stories are massaged in such a manner so as to deny the truth and only report ‘facts’ that simply do not stand up to scrutiny.

Readers of pieces like those created by Lamm, Albrechtsen, Weisser, Sheehan et al (& we should not forget Israel’s greatest pundit – The Australian’s ‘Jerusalem’ Greg Sheridan) have become only too aware of just how blatantly skewed their versions of the real conflict are.

Israel’s brutal, bloody and belligerent occupation of the Palestinians is surely nearing its end. For what other reason would the propagandist’s need to ramp up their PR campaigns to bolster Israel’s morally bankrupt image on the international stage?

Palestinians have remained steadfast for 60 long and bitter years now, despite ever increasing aggression and murder by Israel.

Peace will only ever become a reality when true justice is delivered to the Palestinians.

"Peace will only ever become a reality when true justice is delivered to the Palestinians."

Well, peace will only ever become a reality when you recognize it within your own heart. Until then, from an Israeli point of view, it is better to remain condemned by people like Keith and "MM&L" than to be 6 foot under.

As for true justice being delivered to the Palestinians, from a Palestinian point of view, I should hope it will never come (and prefer to be forgiven instead).

The occupation is bad for the Israelis, it ruins their country from inside, it drains Israel's spirit - but their only other choice is to turn the other cheek, be crucified and march straight up into the kingdom of heaven, something they are not ready for yet.

On the other hand, the occupation is good for the Palestinians - left to their own devices, with no Israel in sight to direct their anger and frustrations against, they could only wish they hadn't been born.

MM&L....have you by any chance read the Charter of Hamas?

Particularly Part III article 11?

http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

What does that say about 'how' Palestine came to 'belong' to Arabs/Muslims?

Do you see any 'theological' aspect to that article?

Does it suprise or shock you that the original inhabitants of the region (Israelites) use the same method to get it BACK that was used to take it FROM them?

Why is it morally wrong to reverse a great crime of history? (i.e.. the Islamic invasion)

Would it be 'morally' wrong for Australian Aboriginals to organize and arm themselves, and form an alliance with some superpower to re-take Australia from we whites?

Do Israeli TV stations spend hours showing Israeli Children how to 'hate' the subhuman Arabs? or.. do the Palestinian TV stations teach children how to hate sub-human Jews?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSwpAX1xvrc&feature=related

Golly Gosh....I've pointed to that hadith as being 'hate speech' in Australia...but I get poo pooed as a 'hate monger'..what utter absolute rubbish.

Your post revealed an ignorance of both history, theology and morality.
It showed extreme bias and immoral bigotry.

The 1st people I met in Haifa were Pali's. I was tired after a long trip and they took me in and fed me.

This was in 2000 when pretty much every street corner was adorned with a life size image of the film "Gladiator."

Now, what concerns me is that after the elections and Hamas's stunning victory that that really was the end. I think all this talk of road maps and peaceful 2 state solutions is just so much p!ss in the pockets of the pundits. As things currently are, it just aint gonna happen.

For my 2c worth, I am for a massive relocation solution out of concern for the people so that they no longer have to live like animals caged in a sh!t hole. I do not suggest that they relinquish their legal claims but it is wrong in my view for a whole group of people to have to live in such appalling conditions to satisfy a minority hard line element.

And for some Muslims, God Willing as they say, maybe later on they'll get a right of return to a more inclusive enlightened state ala Promised Land.

I am not sufficiently informed by my own standards to make a definitive comment but I am reasonably sure that I do not approve of Israel per se, however, I do support everyones' "right" to live safely, happily and peacefully.

Regrettably, the minority hard liners on both sides have too much influence and will continue to kill if they don't get their way so spare me the sentimental half baked measures and just put an end to it.

If need be, and I know I won't win popularity contests for this one, but as opposed to having people fight over them, just blow up all the "Holy" sites starting with the place of the skull and focus your efforts and energies on living people & not dead ones.