Col Rouge,

Good response to Anansi.Your contributions as an immigrant and now true-blue, fair dinkum Australian are always appreciated.

You will notice that there was no response from anyone to my request for them to back up the 'legality' of country shoppers.

We will never get anything but ignorance and abuse from those who call us 'heartless' and 'offensive' and complain that we are 'over-represented' on OLO because, like all lefties, they do not believe in free speech or democracy. They also have this self-hatred that we don't feel. Unlike them, we like who we are and don't see any reason to rubbish our country or our institutions, which are still the best in the world.

I think it's time to move on.

Mr. Right,

Are you so unaware that you can't understand that you are doing the very thing you complain of.

Listen to yourself: "We will never get anything but ignorance and abuse from those who call us 'heartless' and 'offensive' and complain that we are 'over-represented' on OLO..."

Sounds like ignorance and abuse to me.

"...because, like all lefties, they do not believe in free speech or democracy." Sounds like you don't want free speech for 'all lefties' (however you define such a sweeping term).

"They also have this self-hatred that we don't feel." Your hatred seems targeted more broadly at 'they' who disagree with you.

"Unlike them, we like who we are and don't see any reason to rubbish our country or our institutions, which are still the best in the world." So if you happen to think your country could learn anything from elsewhere, you are full of self-hatred?

Sounds dangerously like 'my country right or wrong'. Which has created a compliant populace willing to believe the most outrageous nationalistic fervour and blind belief in a 'we-are-the-best. Try Germany in the 30s.

If you really love this country, you would understand its faults and try to make it even better.

"I think it's time to move on," you conclude. On that we are agreed

First: ColRouge and Mr Right, I was not born in Australia, my parents were never Australians and I have some real experience living and working in third world countries. Not imagined ones like yours.

A huge problem with the billions of dollars in foreign aid, which is largely spent by paying Westerners building, setting up and whatnot is that there is more often than not nobody capable enough to take over. So very many projects fall into disrepair.

The world wide refugee problem cannot be seen isolated from the context of overall immigration by all Western nations. In my view it also cannot be isolated from what all the foreign aid money is spent on.

The Mugabe's of this world and some warlords are doing very well thank you very much. Money keeps flowing in and troublesome people are either moved out or disposed off.

If Australia was drained of its skilled people, there would be nobody left to teach and pass on works of any kind. What would it look like here within a generation or so?

I'm rather surprised by Col's hatred of boat people being such a supporter of personal endevour and innovation, and willingness to take personal responsibility and risk. Funny how you can only apply that to personal local money making activities.

Other than that, Col dear, the children of refugees are on average achieving better economically and academically than those born here from 'true blue aussie parents' or from skilled migrant parents.

Banjo, Australia does not have the highest per capita refugee intake. That honour belongs to that little country Switzerland. Australia doesn't even come second. None of the European countries is a country made up of migrants. Seeing Australia is a country with a very large migrant intake that is disgraceful.

And why do any of you assume that refugees are useless, unteachable lowly beings?

Have the lot of you forgotten Australia's history, or are you just pig ignorant of it? Refugees have contributed greatly to this nation .

*That honour belongs to that little country Switzerland.*

Funny that you should say that. All the Swiss whom I have talked
to are absolutaly pissed off at the social problems caused by so
many asylum seekers, from crime to you name it.

In fact we can learn a great deal from Europe's experiment with
opening the floodgates and the huge problems encountered. Its
not a happy story. At the moment, they are dreaming up any
way they can, to shut the doors closed again.

How many refugees that Australia accepts is open to debate to
all Australians. My point is that the number should not
be unlimited and that those accepted, should be selected by
a more equitable method then whoever sails here.

The UN convention is out of date and needs changing.

Goodness, Mr. Right, from someone with claims to pragmatism , the following para. seems far more emotive than anything posted by those you call lefties. : “We will never get anything but ignorance and abuse from those who call us 'heartless' and 'offensive' and complain that we are 'over-represented' on OLO because, like all lefties, they do not believe in free speech or democracy. They also have this self-hatred that we don't feel. Unlike them, we like who we are and don't see any reason to rubbish our country or our institutions, which are still the best in the world.” Very purple prose indeed.

I’ve not abused you. Nor am I ignorant of the issue. I did indeed, however, suggest that those who have no knowledge of the realities behind the statistics and figures are poorly qualified to judge those who have.

And I see you have cunningly outed me as a dreaded country hopper? Almost as astute as the canny group who uncovered me as Chinese CCP spy. The various bits and pieces of my life which led me to have intimate knowledge of more things than I ever wished, are no secret and have informed my posts throughout the time I’ve been on OLO.

I am also highly amused at the note of exasperation from one who continuously sets himself up as treading a much more elevated moral ground than anyone else, when he says “Bronwyn and Romany take the 'legal' tac.” Thus making us sound as though we are both cunning, Machiavellian shysters who will stop at nothing to produce alternative viewpoints.

It appears that as more people condemn our resident Colonel Blimps for their outmoded ideas and crusty dispositions, the more they race into print to prove themselves very caricatures of that dying breed.

Anansi - behind you all the way, girl.

I've already provided a link to the Australian government website that details the treaties and conventions under which it is perfectly for bona fide refugees to seek asylum in Australia, regardless of how they arrive here or from whence they come. Mr Right is therefore being obtuse, or as Anansis says, "pig-ignorant".

Regardless of how some people regard Australia's current treaty obligations, the fact remains that Immigration authorities obviously erred in denying refuge to those unfortunate asylum seekers who were returned to Afghanistan to be murdered.

I think that they also obviously erred in determining that Col Rouge's qualifications were in necessary in Australia - it seems to me that we have too many hateful bean counters here anyway. Besides which, as Anansi also suggested, if we need more bean counters there is absolutely no reason why we can't train our own.

Indeed, we could train refugees in accountancy, for that matter.