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The Forum > Article Comments > The spirit of Australia > Comments

The spirit of Australia : Comments

By Christina Ho, published 14/11/2008

Australia is the land of opportunity, but only for some. We’re lagging behind in gender equality for some of our newest citizens.

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Porky: << I'm a biased whack-a-mossie Christian hyper fundamentalist, hate and fear and loathing promoting rabble rouser ....right? >>

Absolutely. Spot on, old chap.

What fascinates me about many of those who rightly demand that immigrants respect and conform to Australia's latterly acquired values of gender equality, is that they only adhere to them themselves at the shallowest possible level. For example, Porkycrap has regaled us in the past about how his brand of Christianity relegates women to a lesser status to that of men (man as 'head' of the family etc), on the basis of their interpretation of scriptural dogma. He's also gone on at length about how we shouldn't have female police and soldiers, basically because it's men's work.

In fact, with the exception of the exhortation to beat errant women, the Quranic excerpt Porky refers to sound pretty much the way his Brethren treat their women. Even so - as Pericles points out - Porky's beating of his daughter would be much more in keeping with Middle-Eastern cultural values than those found in mainstream Australian society.

Christina Ho's article reminds us that we still have a long way to go with respect to gender equality in Australian society and culture, and migrant women seem to be disproportionately represented among those women who are still treated as lesser citizens than men. As are non-migrant women who have the misfortune to adhere to various versions of Christianity and other anachronistic religions.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Monday, 17 November 2008 1:40:51 PM
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Please, spare us the sulks Boaz..

>>reminding me of something I shared with the forum in times past... does not help the debate about this particular issue.<<

Pointing out your inconsistencies is necessary to the reining in of your more tawdry bouts of self-righteousness.

You do remember, don't you, that the thread in question was one that you yourself kicked off.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=50

Does your being shy about it now mean that you have changed your views on beating twelve-year-old girls?

Perhaps you should start another thread on the topic so that we can clear the air.

Until that happens, the event you describe forms a significant part of my online assessment of your character.

But to the point.

You claim "spare the rod and spoil the child" as justification for violence against your twelve-year-old daughter, while other religions use other verses to justify theirs.

Which is the more heinous? The stronger or the weaker verse?

Because you have to admit, that sparing the rod stuff is just a bit wishy-washy, compared with the very direct "beat them".

Yet you find you are comfortably able to use it as your excuse to visit physical abuse on a sub-teen.

It certainly stands in stark contrast to my own pacifism in this area.

Which has absolutely no biblical or religious foundation to it whatsoever.

And I'm sorry, but this did cause me to smile a little:

>>Pointing to me continually like that only shows you cannot be trusted with information of that nature.<<

You make it sound as though it were a secret, a confidence that I have somehow broken.

Once again, it was your "lookitme, lookitme" thread that brought your views into the open. It was even remarked upon - not by me - at the time.

>>you chose to make a personal anecdote and now you complain when your actions are commented upon. Tough.<<

And in case it has already slipped your memory, it was your "pay close attention to the bit about beating" remark that created the opportunity for me to remind you of your own position on the topic.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 17 November 2008 3:10:04 PM
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I have three post-grad degrees including a PhD an undergrad studies with a triple major. Were I to work pemanently in China, apart from academic, expat or a multinational communities, I suspect my potential would quite limited. Probably very limited, indeed.

UTS hired you. At one UWS wanting to "internationalise" its staff, preferring Non-Anglo academics. I assume as "B" (Lecturer) academic, you have a recognized PhD. The "fair" protocol. Metropolitian unis, these days, rarely hire lecturers, without doctorates.
Posted by Oliver, Monday, 17 November 2008 7:03:04 PM
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All,

Christina is a Senior Lecturer ("C", I assume) with doctorate. That seems fair to me. UTS has recognized her capabilities. Rightfully, so.
Posted by Oliver, Monday, 17 November 2008 7:10:17 PM
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Oliver,

I am quite confused as to your last (2) posts.Are you saying that because Ms.Ho is Chinese and she has a job which utilises her qualifications her entire theme and article are invalidated? Or that, because she is in that fortunate position, she should not speak up for those who are not?

Do you know for certain that she entered the country with her qualifications from a Chinese facility and was hired on the basis of those? Many students from China (whose parents can afford it) now complete their entire Tertiary regime in Australia and such students, indeed, have little trouble being hired subsequently. It's those who received their qualifications in China the article focuses upon.

I also found this puzzling: "Were I to work pemanently in China, APART from academic, expat or a multinational communities, I suspect my potential would quite limited."(My caps.) Yes. You have no doubt your scholastic qualifications would gain you a job in either acadaemia or business. Ms. Ho is making the point that the reverse situation - those with similar qualification to yours but gained in China - can NOT get work in acadaemia or business. And surely, even in Australia, your potential for jobs other than those in your own field are "quite limited"?

I'm sorry, perhaps I am being particularly thick this evening, but I would appreciate it if you could clarify your post a little for me.
Posted by Romany, Monday, 17 November 2008 8:08:10 PM
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Pericles... "cannot be trusted" indeed it is so.

Were I to use your curious "Keeping domestic pets is slavery" to counter every argument you raise which I did not agree with...eventually you might wonder about whether I had anything more to offer regarding the point at hand...no?

Re my daughter.. let me emphasise..I would not
a)Recommend other people do the same.
b)Don't justify it from the Scriptures, in spite of the verse I quoted.
c)Would not see that verse as anything other than a principle that 'discipline is important' and many means can be used to achieve that.

The biblical verse is in the form of a proverb..not a specific permission to beat your spouse. It relates only to a child. I don't find Tim Costello or Hillsongs Brian Houston making detailed explanations about how to do it.

Perhaps your rather quaint view of 'animal slavery' prevents you from seeing things in a broader perspective?

I find myself rather cynical about your motives. By all means call me a hypcocrite.. in fact you usually do.. but that's ok.. as I've said.. "I" am not the Bible, nor am I the Lord Jesus, I am but a struggling parent who stumbles his way through as best he can. I do not promote or agree with domestic violence as a disciplinary tool against spouses, I DO emphasize the need for discipline of children but I'm sure I got it wrong on numerous occasions.

Your failure (inability?) to see the huge difference between emphasizing discipline of children generally in a proverb, and the specific permission to beat one's wife in Islamic (un)Holy writ.. suggests that you are not interested in anything other than sanitizing that faith for reasons known only to yourself. (but perhaps becoming more obvious to observers over time)
Posted by Polycarp, Tuesday, 18 November 2008 5:58:39 AM
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