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The Forum > Article Comments > A perspective on evil > Comments

A perspective on evil : Comments

By John Töns, published 10/10/2008

In developing a system of global justice we need to acknowledge there will always be those who will use the system to their own perverted ends.

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A thought-provoking article. Humanity’s capacity for conscious evil and, perhaps more chilling, the unthinking evil Arendt highlights does not sit easily with modern ideas about human identity and motivation. Religion has been particularly helpful in prompting self-examination, and the awareness of our own capacity for evil, which modern culture with its emphasis on self-esteem and antisocial behaviour as a product of environment and upbringing fails to address. Mythic language and figures such as Satan and demons help to express the ever-present “otherness” and possibility of evil.

I found Gary Baumeister’s book on the "Myth of Pure Evil" particularly insightful in exploring how our most idealistic endeavours (e.g. Communism, and also religion ) so often lead to the most appalling results.

(summary and review here: http://homepages.which.net/~radical.faith/reviews/baumeister1.htm )

I have a small quibble with the article, – all religions deal with the problem of evil, but “original sin” and its link to the Eden story is a uniquely Christian doctrine, and one that I find problematic for modern audiences.
Posted by Rhian, Friday, 10 October 2008 3:14:36 PM
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In order to base justice over the entire world on combating evil we would have to develop a universally accepted morality so that we can recognise evil where it occurs. I don't think we can develop an objective system of morality applicable to all because societies define morality, and the definition varies from one society to another.

It is not even reasonable for our own legal system. English Common Law prescribes penalties for illegal acts not for sins. We have progressed to a more humane society by separating sin from crime.

The United States enacted a Constitutional Amendment regarding Prohibition of alcoholic beverages. The attempt to legislate morality was a massive failure promoting governmental corruption, criminal empires and a disregard for law. I feel I am not wise enough to determine other's morals, and I would not be willing to give anybody else the right to determine mine.
Posted by david f, Friday, 10 October 2008 5:41:07 PM
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My My....what a fascinating article.... err confession?

There are so many juicy quotes from the article I'd love to use here, but if I did so my own post would just be full of cut and paste.

I do note though that by 2 lines of the article we have mention of "Original Sin"...then peppered throughout it, are mentions of religion God etc.

This is the ultimate dilemna. Without the righteousness of God, we cannot define 'evil'. The closest we can come is to define "unpleasant/threatening/unsafe/annoying/life threatening"..but "evil"? nope.. without reference to our Creator the idea is completely meaningless.

This problem is highlighted by the fact that those withIN given societies such as the Nazi regime, or Maos Cultural revolution or Saddaam's Iraq.. the primary focus of 'good' =That which advances the agenda of 'us', and evil is that which threatens it.

Paul contends that ALL have sinned.. Jews and Gentiles, and he goes to considerable lengths to develop this idea in Romans 1-3

Paul offers not a 'legal' solution but a spiritual.

1/ The Failure of LAW in producing righteousness.

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.(Rom3:20)

2/ The Solution in Christ.

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.(Rom3:21f)

The key here is the 'righteousness APART from law'...... Paul contends that the law alone cannot make people righteous because the law only serves to highlight our sin and evil.

"Customers did not care that the cheap products they bought were made with child labor" (From the article)

Sorry.. we are all sinners and equally in need of Grace.. undeserved kindness from our Creator who has given us a Way..in Christ to be born anew to a living hope that is unfading, incorruptable and undefiled.
Posted by Polycarp, Saturday, 11 October 2008 6:28:34 AM
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Any significance this article might have had is lost in the nature of it.

People who buy cheap clothes are not evil and their ‘crime’, not that I think they have committed one, is not comparable to those of Eichmann and not worthy of being included in the same article. Such hyperbole defeats the point the author is trying to make.

Apart from that, he is just stating the obvious, that bad people exist.

I am not responsible for those bad people, I am responsible for my own conduct and whilst I may buy price-competetive garments, I am a very long way along the “chain of responsibility” to bear any culpability.

Polycarp “The Failure of LAW in producing righteousness.”

I would disagree Pc, I think you have that entirely the wrong way around

The existence of LAW is only necessitated because of the absence of righteousness.

“The solution in Christ”

The solution is to find the morality and goodness within overselves. A belief in God might help but God is the great “non-interventionalist”, the motivation to find any solution has to come from within.

Yum Cha?
Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 11 October 2008 7:35:47 AM
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Polycarp wrote:

"This problem is highlighted by the fact that those withIN given societies such as the Nazi regime, or Maos Cultural revolution or Saddaam's Iraq.. the primary focus of 'good' =That which advances the agenda of 'us', and evil is that which threatens it.."

I get tired of Christians disowning the Nazis.

Hitler's anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Christian Austria and Germany in his time took for granted the belief that Jews held an inferior status to Aryan Christians. Jewish hatred did not spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, "On the Jews and their Lies," Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War II. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther.
Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. … As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him! As evidence to his claimed Christianity, he said:
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.”

The Nazi Holocaust was applied Christianity.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 11 October 2008 7:48:33 AM
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Nice article.

It is true that we all have to put our religious identities aside in order to define evil and fight it together under the banner of human brotherhood.

The problem with identity labels whether religious of non-religious is that as soon as someone calls themself a muslim for example they are somehow responsible for all atrocities that every other muslim has done. But as for christians they get to pick and choose which groups are 'really' christians, so I guess the nazi party were not christian.

On original sin you are incorrect to put us muslims in the category that believe in original sin as we do not believe in it at all.
While christians see original sin as inherited from Adam thus making us all born with a sinful nature, Islam teaches we are all born good natured and only sin when we consciously make a decision to rebel against God.

We do need God and religion to define what is evil, the moral teaches of most faiths 'if implemented' will serve to change society in a good way.
Posted by Casalan, Saturday, 11 October 2008 8:37:13 AM
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