The comparison doesn't hold water, Boaz.

>>On the "Lot" issue you might like to revisit that, the basic problem with understanding such passages is that they are simply reporting events, not making value judgements on them... Just because the Daily Terrorgraph reports Richard Pratt doing bad things, does not mean they hold him up as any kind of example.. right?<<

Earlier in the chapter, some judgements are made, and they are pretty conclusive. Sodom and Gomorrah were judged to be wicked, and destroyed. If I recall correctly, there was even a certain amount of discussion between God and Abraham about the level of wickedness involved before the final solution.

"Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven" Gen 19: 24

So we are led to expect that where wickedness exists, and the Lord is about, wickedness gets punished.

But later in the same chapter, we find incest.

No fire. No brimstone. Not even a slightly wagged finger.

It is not therefore a pretty fair conclusion that while the behaviour of the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah was to be condemned, that of Lot and his daughters was not?

Foxy

Your request is entirely reasonable; we are all humans and should treat each other with compassion and respect.

Yet for the likes of Runner, Boazcarp et al this is not enough. Their entire raison d'etre is the subjugation and vilification of others, this is how they prop up their fragile egos.

The best that can be said is that they are in the minority...the worst is that it is an exceedingly noisy one that harms many of us simply for holding different views and having the temerity to express them.

Religion like capitalism relies on an expanding population; for control and to increase demand. Any who do not fit this mould such as homosexuals or people like myself who have not had children, do not fit, are therefore considered suspect.

That this is an illogical (religion) and unsustainable (big business) ideology is ignored and your polite request that we be excellent to one another, is reduced to a whisper.

In light of my above post it is reasonable to ask why I even bothered having a go at Runner - a very easy target after all.

The answer is:

HYPOCRISY

And I had just read the following article, surely one of the most hypocritical actions taken by police in the name of christianity:

http://littlurl.com/d2qmq

"Preacher commits horrible acts, is allowed to finish sermon on love and redemption before arrest.

You've probably already heard this one, since it is all over the news: a preacher, Anthony Hopkins, murdered his wife after she caught him sexually abusing their children and stuffed her in a freezer -- with the daughter's assistance. This happened four years ago and the children's mother has been kept in the freezer in this house ever since. The pastor of Hopkins church reports that "the children were so respectful, just so easygoing", and that they "loved their dad. They were very close to him." Right. Rape, murder, and incest are just ordinary events in the Abrahamic family tree.

What I find disturbing about the whole story is this. Anthony Hopkins spent all this time since as an itinerant preacher, traveling about and preaching the 'Holy Word of Jesus Christ'. His daughter moved out of his house, finally, reported what he'd done to the police, the police went into his house and opened the freezer, and then they went off to the church where he was preaching that day. What did they do then?

Police allowed Hopkins to finish his sermon before arresting him.

Wait, what? Was this an example of Christians showing respect, that they allowed a child-raping murderer continue mouthing words of love and redemption in their church, words that clearly meant nothing to this monstrous psychopath? If only he'd crumbled a cracker, perhaps then they would have been less tolerant."

Dear Fractelle,

I still prefer to believe that most people
are decent human beings, and basically good.
They just sometimes don't stop to think
about the damage they're doing by
trying to enforce their point of view on
others, by making unfair
judgements and by labelling people.

It's very easy to denigrate people when
you place them into groups. It becomes
less personal. Groups like - Muslims,
Jews, Blacks, Christians, homosexuals,
and so on...

But when you take people on a one-on-one
basis - when you actually put a human
face on a person , (someone's child,
neighbour, cousin, friend, co-worker,
fellow student) it becomes personal,
and harder to judge and label.

My request may well be a whisper, but
I'm hoping those with a sense
of fair play will hear it.

Let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone seems to come to mind here.

Anyway, I went to the Canberra Day of Action.

It was small, about 60 people. But quite lively. More lesbians than gay men.

My take is that marriage equality is not that important for most gays etc.

This might be because they think the hompohobia rife in our society is all pervasive and unchallangeable, and the level of any struggles in Australia has been low for many years (apart from occasional upsurges like the anti-Iraq war demos). So the idea of militant demos for basic rights is not in most people's psyche, and even when they do occur (as in anti-Iraq war demos) they peter out after a while.

Anybody go to the Sydney or Melbourne NDAs. What were they like?

Passy

'Let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone seems to come to mind here.' Too right but at least you acknowledge it as sin and thats a start.