"I wonder what the author would make of a statistic revealed in the United Kingdom recently where a report found that 25% of Muslim students said that they had little or no respect for gays. The figure was even higher for male Muslim students at 32%. But among non-Muslims, the figure was only 4%."

I'm surprised the figure was as low as 25 percent. Committed religious types from homophobic religions obvious feeling hating gays is part and parcel of their belief in God. I'm skeptical about the four percent figure. Were Mormons not surveyed? Or committed Catholics or Anglicans? And in Eastern Europe where Catholicism and the Orthodox religions hold sway, gays have experienced violent opposition each time they show their faces.

At any rate, gender is more important than religion when it comes to anti-gay bigotry and violence. The many pilgrims during Catholic World Youth Day ignored me as they went on their merry way. Tanked up male footballers or their fans would have bashed me or at the least given me a mouthful of homophobic abuse - despite the fact that I get around in jeans, a jumper and non-descript t-shirt. I also feel quite safe walking past Muslim women. A group of Muslim males is a different proposition.

To underline my point, who are usually the spokespeople for most religions and who get the best jobs in the religious hierarchy? Quite simply, religion is the excuse for homophobia whereas really the problem is that gays offend some people's sense of how men and women should act.

SP. And your point is? The Vatican condemns homosexuals as do political rightwingers. So whats new!

Steel Man

The term 'Gay Christians' is about as biblical as a fornicating or immoral Christian. It might be 'normal' to some people but just ask any honest doctor how unhealthy sodomy is. Churches might welcome 'gays' or sodomites but just like adulterers, liars they need to turn from their sin. No one loving their sin more than God will inherit His kingdom. You should not be changing biblical standards in order to be accepted by society or others.

John Passant,

You write 'But make no mistake. The nature of capitalism is such that it still sees the family unit as the best model for cheaply producing the next generation of workers.

Hence, while accepting the reality of gay relationships, many (like Howard and Rudd) still hanker for the old days when women produced babies for capital and homosexuality was a crime.'

So far as can see, your logic is no better than that of St Paul. (He gets the cause of homosexual desires wrong, and aruges illogically to an immoral conclusion. Runner, please note.)

John, capitalism can't see anything. so how is your comment to be interpreted? Some capitalists are gay, and others accept homosexual law reform, so it can't be that you mean that capitalists see the family unit as the best model. Nor can you mean that capitalist ideology encourages people to see women and the family in this light, since that plainly false. It may assist the survival of the capitalist system to have traditional families. But where is the connection to how people think? And where is your evidence as to Rudd's motivation?

Runner:
"The term 'Gay Christians' is about as biblical as a fornicating or immoral Christian"

After I managed to stop laughing, I recalled my bible classes at school and politely suggest that you go read your bible - you'll find plenty of christians behaving badly:

"Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes.""

Why does god hate virgins so much? They're always being treated badly.

"Ecclesiastes 7:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."

I guess that includes god as well as all christians.

I was a little surprised last night on the ABC program Question and Answers that the Rudd governments Climate Minister, Penny Wong was put in an uncomfortable position by another guest commentator who admitted Penny Wong to be gay, as he was himself he confessed.

Penny Wong was answering a question on her belief that a marriage was between a woman and a man, not same sex couples.

Penny could not refute his true statement about her being a lesbian and his revelation took her by surprise, she gulped down each of her words thereafter, recovering herself by the next question that was directed for her comment.

Penny Wong was questioned by him, about how Penny is denying her rights as a lesbian to marry and she was just mouthing the Labor party line on gay marriages.

The original question was really directed to Malcom Turnbull of the Liberal Party and his electorate with high numbers of gay residence and the unanswered question about his lifestyle preference in partners.