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The Forum > Article Comments > We must stop stealing doctors from the poor > Comments

We must stop stealing doctors from the poor : Comments

By Peter Deutschmann, published 17/7/2008

Can we continue with a clear conscience to recruit trained doctors, nurses and midwives from the countries that need them more than we do?

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If Australia could defy the United States embargo on trade with Cuba and embrace that Country on terms of mutual respect, we could access their pool of doctors and possibly prevail on Cuban generosity to train Australian medical students
Presently, Cuba sends it's surfeit of doctors around the world to developing countries such as East Timor where there are some 300-500
doctors working throughout the countryside.
Additionally, Cuba has established a medical faculty in East Timor's university and currently has in excess of 700 East Timorese studying Medicine in Havana.
I understand Cuba also is engaged in developing it's own pharmaceutical industry as an alternative to having to deal with American monopolies who continue to screw us all with over-the-top pricing which forces Australia to implement our own Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme to make medicines more affordable.
Posted by maracas, Thursday, 17 July 2008 2:46:59 PM
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People are people, they are not the property of the state they are born or trained in or by.

Many acquire skills to escape the poverty of their birth.

Should Australia play God and for those who aspire to come here, deny them entry because they have the skills which we need and might be valued elsewhere?

I think not.
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 17 July 2008 4:12:40 PM
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I agree with Col Rouge,

Australia already does not make it easy for doctors to come, requiring working in the country side and local examinations, so doctors that come here really want to.

South Africa and other african nations decided that young doctors had benefitted from the countries education and that they should be forced into a "national service" many in distance rural clinics at the pittance of about $1000 per month. They then respond with shock and disgust at the shameful behaviour of the youth when the emigration rate of qualifying doctors goes from 20% to 55%.

The developed world is not stealing the doctors rather the attitude of entitlement is driving them away from where they are needed.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 18 July 2008 8:55:43 AM
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The G8’s noble intention of World health is admirable but Col’s words reflect certain truths;
• There aren’t enough medical workers to go around and those exist are often disproportionally distributed.
• Under capitalism Medical professionals are a commodity that will be adjusted by market mechanisms of supply and demand.
• There aren’t enough medical workers to go around and those exist are often disproportionally distributed.
• People are entitled to sell their talents to improve their lot.
• To many a MD licence is a perceived ticket to a better life.
However, reality is somewhat skewed by the perversions of power and excesses.

Without doing a Humanistic rave (no Col not socialist). I wonder if we couldn’t do a better job of:
• Training and opportunities.
Training our Drs seems a bit like the ‘survival of the fittest’ an all or nothing deal. A medical degree should have levels each entitling the individual to different levels of involvement in the Health area based on achievement, competence etc.
Currently the system turns out Drs. (if they survive) if not ‘taxi drivers’ with potentially a whopping Hex, hardly an efficient use of resources, skills and people.
An obvious conclusion is to expand and better facilities to be more Health INDUSTRY focused even to the point of Health Industry universities.

• Distribution
The current power of medical colleges (unions) accreditation is outdated and geared to maintaining their self interest. A clear perversion of the market mechanism of supply
Medical licences don’t mean that all Drs. are good businessmen or operate in the interest of their customers they serve (sort of).
The Federal Government should borrow from business and act more as a franchisor offering various territories for independent Medical services suppliers (Drs, Clinics, medical consolidations) each franchise would then operate on clearly defined rules and incentives for regional practices. It would be then up to the effort of individual practise to determine revenue. Multiple franchise ownerships would be possible.

Okay team rip it up or improve.
Posted by examinator, Friday, 18 July 2008 9:43:32 AM
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Examinator,

What you are describing has been in place for decades in 3rd world countries.

Primary health care clinics in rural areas are normally staffed by senior nurses who consult, diagnose, prescribe and dispense medicines, and perform minor surgery and child delivery.

More serious cases are referred to the hospitals in the main centres.

These systems where implemented have managed to drastically improve the health of the people in the area.

However, it is also recognised that they are not experts, and that they can and do make mistakes. Their customers have no legal recourse to compensation, but are unlikely to try as they recognise that they are much better off.

In Australia, where an error on the part of a medical pratitioner results in huge law suits, highly trained nurses are not allowed to diagnose (spending a lot of time changing bedpans etc) and doctors will refer to specialists if in the slightest doubt.

Thus the huge increase in demand for highly qualified personnel is purely driven by the huge cost of making a mistake.

If your GP has to pay $150 000 p.a. in insurance, he has to get it from some one.

The answer to the shortage of doctors would be to limit the compensation due to medical error.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 18 July 2008 1:53:43 PM
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Shadow minister,
I think you missed the thrust of my idea.
• Medical Unis teach all facets of medicine including levels of nursing
1. first year common
2. second year nursing practices
3. Third year Theatre etc advance nursing
4. Medical diagnosis etc.
5. internship
6. Jr resident
7. practicing cert
8. Specialist
If some one bombs out at year 4 they are still qualified to be a advanced nurse with the chance to after a year redo year 4 and on. Second failure no more chances unless supported by a major hospital as sponsor.
Year 4&5 could with an extra year become administrator of level 2 hospital (60 beds).
• Distribution franchisee.
1. Only level 7+ with 5yrs experience can hold a franchise.
2. He can employ up to 2 x level 6 as a Jr Residents per level 7(supervisor) in practise. Or a Snr. Nurses Fees would be appropriate. Allowances can be made for years of experience.
As the franchisor the independent commission offers various sites which can include which services are to be supplied. The Dr after vetting would be on a rolling franchise subject to meeting all requirements. Up graded services ie specialists must be approved by the commission. This would avoid bunching or cherry picking. Profits would be the same as applies on any franchise except the on going franchise fee.
The initial franchise fee would help pay for appropriate set up costs balance subsidised by Govt. lesser areas more subsidies.
Sales of practise would be the same as in commercial franchises.

The system I suggest here is just for example.
This system is borrowing from McDonalds only the government is the HO and offer support and financial set up. Mc D gives franchisers a choice of offered placements or buying an existing one. The allocation system helps individual profitability reduces competition on price and all but guarantees a profit.
It still allows private enterprise, better placement, spreading services wider. Where they are needed. The Commission would offer franchises/subsidies on market basis. Insurance would be on bulk rates. Now what do you think
Posted by examinator, Friday, 18 July 2008 4:32:11 PM
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