Celivia,

I was joking about the TV. What I was illustrating is the stupidity of saying that men being men and enjoying male persuits around the workplace is discriminating against women. As I said, women can play golf too.

'Men as a group have a lot of power especially if they are in the vast majority'
So you are saying men all have the same goal to overpower women? That naturally a large group of men will look to marginalise females?

'trivialising problems that women experience is another ‘power’ thing men do. It happens in workplaces, too, and women walk off the job.
'
See that is the problem. Men more than likely trivialise each other's problems, but women want to be treated specially. Instead of understanding the way heirachical struggles work in the workplace, subordinate women should be pampered, while a subordinate man accepts his position in the pecking order. If men cant hack it, they're a sook, if women cant hack it they're oppressed.

' That’s why plumbers are valued more and get paid a good rate, and a childcare worker gets peanuts.
'
Plumbers get good money because not enough people really want to unblock toilets. It's simple supply and demand.

'Why should men be paid more than women for doing the same job?...'
I think Country girl wants to break down the barriers to men being full time carer, much in the same way as this Norwegian effort wants to break down the barriers to women in boardrooms.

So you support this idea for women but not for men?

How many men dont stay at home because their wife wants to, and someone has to earn the money? How many men dont stay at home because they earn more money, and most women choose to marry up, so for most couples this is the case? Then there's the oppression from women in the home, deciding what constitutes 'clean' and how often cleaning must be done! Telling their husbands what to do and how it must be done and when it must be done!

continued..

It works both ways you see. Women need to encourage and assist men into the home if they want to be so accommodated for in the workplace. If more men are primary carers, there'll be more women CEOs!

So you must shame all the women who marry up, or who choose not to bother persuing a career as they know they can find a man to support them financially, or else pay men more than women to stay at home.
Families that want the man to stay at home will then not be sacrificing the higher earner's salary, hence only paying paternity leave will make it more attractive for men stay at home.

Then men will be closer to their children and gain greater access to them in divorce.

See all this would never happen, because no matter what women say, they WANT to keep control of the domestic side of things. They have a pretty good deal, and currently a lot more choices in their role in family life than men do. That's why all this glass ceiling rubbish is a furphy. Women CHOOSE to bring up the children, and they get first dibs. If they sacrifice 80 hour a week CEO jobs to do so is not men's fault.

US,
I’m not saying that women are being discriminated against when men enjoy their persuit, or that there’s a conspiracy to overpower women, or that men, as individuals, necessarily discriminate against women.

The point I’m trying to get at is that the SYSTEM that values traditional masculine qualities over traditional feminine qualities is failing.
A system that enhances masculine qualities and rejects and diminishes feminine ones is imbalanced.
If there can be more of a balance of both sets of qualities, then a larger range of people are able to cope within the workplace- not just ones who thrive on a domination system.

You say, “subordinate women should be pampered, while a subordinate man accepts his position in the pecking order.”
People who stand up for their right to communicate in the workplace are being pampered? Or does that apply to women only?
Don’t you think that men are being oppressed, too, in workplaces where they can’t even talk about their problems without being called a sook?
No freedom of expression in the workplace as part of a male-dominated system is something we should accept?
Why should women accept the same things as men do if they don’t agree?

“If men cant hack it, they're a sook, if women cant hack it they're oppressed.”
Being listened to in case of problems or concerns is essential and respectful.
I don’t think that men are sooks when they express problems- do you?
Women generally recognise when they’re being oppressed and will talk about their feelings whether others want to hear it or not. Otherwise, they walk away from the workplace. And that harms professional women as well as workplaces.

Perhaps men should stand up more for their rights, too.
Why would it be acceptable to have something you say trivialised? Are you not a valuable worker? You should demand attention for your work-related problems.
Uncaring, impersonal attitudes in workplaces are a product of male-domination systems. Such workplace is an environment in where bullies can thrive.

The fact that men accept their situation doesn’t mean that they’re helping to support a healthy workplace.