Keith, I read your comments with interest. You see utopia for Iraq while I see a dark cloud of chaos. The many "if's" that you foresee would be wonderful but I would have to be on "cloud nine" to expect hardly any of these dreams to be fulfilled. You explained where you get your news and while it is commendable that you are "informed", I agree with bennie's comment that "....If you watch CNN and/or Fox you will have more misconceptions of what's happening in Iraq than if you watch no news at all". In fact, many of us in the U.S. consider Fox News as being merely an extension of the spin of the Bush White House on the news. If MSNBC is available, it would be a far more balanced source of news than either of those that you listed.

The Iraq war is the second longest war in our country's history (second only to Vietnam) and the second most expensive, being second to World War II so far. By some, the estimate has been put at 3 trillion if all factors are considered. In the meantime, the U.S. infrastruction is deteriorating and we have around 40 million citizens who have no medical insurance while the costs of medical treatment is soaring. There are better ways to spend our limited resources. Our economy has been severely affected by this war that was initiated by misinforming and deceiving our people. (A new book by McClennan, a former Bush Press Secretary, has just been released that details what many of us already knew. It details the Bush "Culture of Deception). I don't need to go into more but the Bush legacy can only be one of complete failure. After 7 years in Iraq, democracy and a stable government is little closer than it was when the invasion began.

Keith, I read your comments with interest. You see utopia for Iraq while I see a dark cloud of chaos. The many "if's" that you foresee would be wonderful but I would have to be on "cloud nine" to expect hardly any of these dreams to be fulfilled. You explained where you get your news and while it is commendable that you are "informed", I agree with bennie's comment that "....If you watch CNN and/or Fox you will have more misconceptions of what's happening in Iraq than if you watch no news at all". In fact, many of us in the U.S. consider Fox News as being merely an extension of the Bush White House spin on the news. If MSNBC is available, it would be a far more balanced source of news than either of those that you listed.

The Iraq war is the second longest war in our country's history (second only to Vietnam) and the second most expensive, being second to World War II so far. By some, the estimate has been put at 3 trillion if all factors are considered. In the meantime, the U.S. infrastruction is deteriorating and we have around 40 million citizens who have no medical insurance while the costs of medical treatment is soaring. There are better ways to spend our limited resources. Our economy has been severely affected by this war that was initiated by misinforming and deceiving our people. (A new book by McClennan, a former Bush Press Secretary, has just been released that details what many of us already knew. It details the Bush "Culture of Deception). I don't need to go into more but the Bush legacy can only be one of complete failure. After 7 years in Iraq, democracy and a stable government is little closer than it was when the invasion began.

Hi Joe

"....If you watch CNN and/or Fox you will have more misconceptions of what's happening in Iraq than if you watch no news at all"

The ultimate implication is if I don't watch any news I'll be imformed best? :-)

Or is it that you think I should only watch news or read news that shares anti US, anti peace in Iraq and anti peace in the mid east views?

Media in Australia only ever runs that angle and is full of such propaganda. I source all possible views and make up my own mind.

Other sources I access are al Jazzera, Haartz South China Morning Post and other publications.

Have you noted the past month in Iraq has seen almost no violence and US troop numbers are at 150,000 or only 20,000 more than when 'the surge begun'?
It appears the US is now winning the peace too... arn't you proud of your countrymens efforts?
Have you noticed Israel and Syria have opened peace talks?
Have you noticed Lebanon has elected it's President and violence has decreased?
Have you noticed how overt Israeli agression against Palestinian Gaza has ceased? Dare to wonder why?
Have you noticed the only blot on a general move to peace in the region is the (Announced Sunday 1st June) Israeli government's auction of more stolen Palestianian lands. The auction is closed to all but Israeli Jews. Ever dare wonder why?

We in Australia treat with disdain the bleatings of disgruntled, money-seeking former employees ... why don't you do the same. It's commonsense really.

The Bush legacy like the Reagan legacy, like the Clibnton legacy won't be evident nor accepted for about a generation. Then the critic's will all go quite.

I've always admired the US in the way it assesses the longterm legacies of it's political leaders. Especially those like MacCarthy, the Kennedys, Nixon, Carter, Johnson and Ford ... and most of their wives. Indeed you blokes are doing that with Hillary at the moment.

Hope my comments aren't offensive to you and are taken in a spirit of openness, frankness and friendship.

Go for it, American Joe, you are dead square on subject target.

like to hear much more from you.

Best Regards - BB, West Australia

The suppositions in this thread that the Sermon on the Mount is Jewish philosophy, can be countermanded by historical research regarding the Great Library of Alexandria where it is said that over half of the students who attended were of Jewish faith.

It is also believed that the so-called Wise Men mentioned in the New Testament said to have influenced the boy Jesus, could have been Jews who had learnt much about Hellenistic Reasoning.

It has even been suggested that because the Sermon on the Mount is based on Reason rather than the thou shalts of Biblical Faith, such might have been similar to the meditations of Socrates?

Regards - BB, West Aus'.

"The ultimate implication is if I don't watch any news I'll be imformed best? :-)"

Fair point Keith. I did take a bit of licence there. What I should've said was CNN and Fox are measurably unreliable when it comes to objectivity, and that you'd get a better picture of the state of affairs by watching ANY other MSM channel, or better still a newspaper. It needn't be left wing, only reputable