One of the most perplexing things to happen on the world stage in recent years was the re-election of Bush.

How……… on…………Earth……did……. that…….. happen ?? ?? ?? ??

I still find myself agape, wide-eyed, blinking heavily, with and uncontrollable sideways head shudder, every time I think about it (:~0

Your third paragraph Keith contains six 'ifs'. Do you see any progress towards any of them, in light of the past 7 years?

You appear to believe Iraq's democratic election is significant. It's as if i) Iraqis knew who the candidates were; ii) they knew what policies they represented; and iii) the elected government could actually pass laws, budgets, maintain rule of law etc. It is the most legitimate puppet government we've ever seen.

It has been shown if you watch CNN and/or Fox you will have more misconceptions of what's happening in Iraq than if you watch no news at all.

Bennie, it was the Washington Post two years ago which disclosed the beginnings of the Iraq Great Awakening, when a group of Shias were about to arrest a small number of known Sunni insurgents.

Next thing one of the patrolling US gunships dropped down and arrested the Shias rather than the Sunnis.

Apparently the reporter who filmed the unusual turnabout US action must have got into a lot of trouble, because nothing was heard for months after that till the flick-spins of the Great Awakening.

For Keith

and Iran’s Mullahs finally concede they can’t control the Westernisation of their Persian heritage

Keith, the above piece taken from your rhetoric about beneficial change for the Middle East generally, we regard as a philosophical jewel because it is also the argument from most academic historians, including myself.

Your significant statement about Iranian folklore and Westernisation proves you as a natural historical scholar, knowing that such Westernisation is not so much related to our West, but to Hellenistic Reasoning, Alexander the Great having passed it on to what we might now call the former Middle East intelligentsia, comprising Persia and the whole Euphrates, as well as Egypt, where the followers of Alexander dedicated the Great Library to one who had been a pupil of Aristotle.

A place where all were welcome, including not only Jews but also where the boy Jesus possibly met the Men of Wisdom while with his mother in Egypt.

It is also deeply felt among many university Liberalists, that hundreds of years later when Islam under Mahomet took over the Middle East, Hellenistic scientific reasoning was not crushed by order of Mahomet, but even passed on to the barbarian West later by Muslim scholars.

Indeed, it is said that as the Germanic barbarian West intellectually profitted by such, so the angry Mullahs possibly pushed the Muslims down into their own Dark Ages, very likely not a commitment sanctioned by Mahomet.

Finally, it is also so interesting, Keith, that last year an Iranian female judge stated that eventually Iran will find its own liberalization using its own history just as you have mentioned.

Best of Regards - BB, WA.

Thank you BB, WA.

Numbers mate, numbers are the signpost to the future and an indication of the all our past. And that bloody includes zero.

How many others will understand the significances contained in those two sentences.

I'm chuffed, I've not matriculated, yet you call me not just a natural historian, but by God, a scholar.

My mum will be playing her harp with gusto.

The only point, in addition, I'd discuss would be the effect of the Arab after the collapse of the Caliphates and the restoration of fundamentalist Islam and it's return from old Persia to Saudia Arabia in about 1100.

One other minor point too, sorry, we must not forget the West also adopted significant attitudes from the Hebrew ... but not to the extent the Christian fundamentalists seem, by their spruiking, to think.

I think you rather succinctly setout the roots of the development of Westernism.

You know I don't think enough people today understand how we have come to be where we are. The debate in this forum on language this month was quite a revelation. I love to see a few articles discussing the influence of our (Western) origins and developments on how we determine our style of life today.

I haven't the expertise nor the time but I think the time for such discussion is opportune.

Thanks, Keith, but please remember though we might agree on history, I do not agree that peace in this world can be obtained by US missile diplomacy as it was never really obtained by British gunboat diplomacy.

Cheers, BB