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The Forum > Article Comments > Living in the future > Comments

Living in the future : Comments

By John Töns, published 20/5/2008

Ever wondered what went through the minds of the Easter Islanders as the last tree was cut down?

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MHaze I do agree with your view that “human ingenuity” will prevail.

It is the most underutilised resource we have.

Divergence your question to MHaze “Where do you propose to get the energy to run the desalination plants and to pump the water to where it is needed?”

As you know (or should) it don’t work like that.

What we should support is the sort of social order and government which encourages the innovative mind.

Therefore, government which leaves the “reward” for those who successfully risk and innovative

Is more likely to produce the “silver bullets” to solve present problems and future challenges than

The sort of government which taxes individual reward to fund some kind of “safety-net” for the less innovative.

So that is what I expect of responsible government,

A small, hands off approach, rather than the big-bureaucratic, meddlesome and interfering approach.

The price of equality is mediocrity (both for ourselves and future generations)
Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 3:22:09 PM
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mhaze, just to clarify when you say “name 3 resources that “WE’VE” ever run out of,” the “WE” you are talking about are rich people like most of us living in Australia, not poor people. I guess the billion people who don’t have access to clean drinking water would say they have run out of water. When you say “WE” haven’t run out of food, the implication is that as long as you are alive you are getting exactly the kind of food you’d like. Billions might disagree with that.

And to clarify on the definition of resources, are ecosystems a resource? If we lose a hectare of a natural forest or wetland does that count as a resource lost or since we have saved some of it, then it is still okay? If we used to have a million eagles and now we have a thousand, is that a lost resource? If 70% of all the fisheries in the world are overfished, is that a lost resource? If a plant or animal goes extinct, is that a lost resource?

I suppose, though, that the concept of running out of things and what technology will do for us in the future isn’t really that critical. If we try to live more sustainably and we do get a new amazing energy source through improved technology and unlimited human ingenuity, then we would just all be more prosperous than we would have been.

What is our goal as a society? Is it to cram as many humans on to the earth as possible, regardless of their standard of living?

I agree human ingenuity has been remarkable and I think it will continue to solve many problems. I’d just rather see human ingenuity focussed on curing cancer, diabetes, multiple sclerosis; learning how to live together and pulling people out of poverty; rather than trying to figure out how to get more food off the ever-dwindling available farmland, more water out of diminishing available supplies in rivers and groundwater and removing the pollution from our air, water and soils.
Posted by ericc, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 3:56:40 PM
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Divergence,
Yes I'm aware Diamond responded - he could hardly do otherwise given that his entire premise was based on his (mis)reading of Easter Island. But you should note that there a large number of papers and authors similar to that which I linked - this was just the one I had to hand. And Diamond basically misses the point. Peiser isn't saying that the whole thing is caused by rats, only that they were a major factor. But more importantly, he is refuting Diamond's claim that the society collapsed due to environmental vandalism and this is the point that Diamond avoids. He says agriculture collapsed due to soil loss due to deforestation, and the mounting evidence is contrary to that.

ericc,
I was refering to us - humans, (wo)mankind. Leaving aside the assumption that we are loosing forest coverage (which I'd dispute) I don't think converting a forest to a field is the loss of a resource. If we cut down all the trees then yes, but that patently is not happening. Equally fishing, even alleged overfishing doesn't result in the loss of a resource - only if that resource is exhausted - and that hasn't happened. The logical conclusion to your point would be that converting oxygen to CO2 is a resource lost but I wouldn't hold my breathe on that one.
You ask.."What is our goal as a society?". It is to allow each to live as they like and to provide as much comfort and well-being as possible. Making society wealthier reduces population and the call on resources.It is only, ONLY, wealthy advanced and advancing societies that can address the issues you say should be addressed. Societies worried about where the next meal is coming from tend not to devote resources to the fight against MS.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 6:25:04 PM
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Let's not get too excited too quickly on desalination plants dotted around the nation.

Our oceans are already trashed by industrial chemicals and the Kwinana desalination plant in WA has been forced to operate at one sixth capacity due to the ocean's low levels of oxygen.

Through the wisdom of our esteemed leaders, this desal. plant was established in the industrial estate of Kwinana - the most polluted area in WA.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/14/2244970.htm

A national survey also revealed that residents of Kwinana/Rockingham have more cancers etc than any other community.

In addition does anyone know how many desalination plants we can afford to construct without affecting marine life?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/26/2070871.htm

http://www.desline.com/articoli/4864.pdf
Posted by dickie, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 10:33:15 PM
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Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 20 May 2008 2:12:01 PM

Wind. There are still sailboats despite our love affair of fossil fuel engines.
Solar. Some people heat their houses with nothing other then passively captured solar radiation. The heathens!
Geothermal energy. Curse the New Zealanders, Greenlanders and Danish for using abundant geothermal heat to heat their homes. How dare they!!

Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 3:22:09 PM

Col, there is plenty of human ingenuity being presented right now to help with various issues brought about by global overpopulation, climate change being one. The problem is the ingenious human solutions keep getting Pooh Poohed! I'm looking at you Col.
Posted by T.Sett, Thursday, 22 May 2008 7:28:14 AM
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T.Sett “The problem is the ingenious human solutions keep getting Pooh Poohed! I'm looking at you Col.”

I suggest you identify which “ingenious human solutions” keep getting pooh-poohed by me.

When you have the grace to specify what I have “solutions” I have supposedly “pooh-poohed” , I will challenge your reasoning

From my post on that day, you might be assuming “big government” will solve anything.

My own opinion and that of many millions of eastern Europeans and Russians, is: big, centralist governmental systems prove they are the worst option for both the people they “govern” and for innovation (too many vested political interests).

but until you are more specific, you leave myself and everyone else to assume you are just expressing the written vent of an empty bucket.
Posted by Col Rouge, Thursday, 22 May 2008 12:57:38 PM
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