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The Forum > Article Comments > A HECS on everything > Comments

A HECS on everything : Comments

By Andrew Leigh, published 12/5/2008

A HECS-style loan scheme could help people in their time of need, but also would expect them to give back when times are good.

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Only an economist would waste time and energy on writing this silly article.

Once-upon-a-time there was a system called 'progressive taxation' where the more you earned the more tax you paid.

Economists gave us 'flat taxes' that favour the wealthy.

HECS is a very poor idea but it clearly appeals to those who see tertiary education as a personal gain, never thinking to undertsand the collective gain society picks up from skilled people.

Yes, there is a silly myth about farmers that sees us all handing cash out as if they were part of a church, another freeloading activity we tolerate, while there seems to be absolutely no guarantees that farmers have to get better at what they do so badly.

We probably should secure farms through bad times though, but it would be good to see some sort of quid pro quo for the hand out.

AS for HECS for court fines... here in Qld there is a system of 'fine now pay later' called a 'spur' debt.

Perhaps it would be simpler to cease fining those who clearly cannot pay, being at the arse end of society already, or those who simply decline to pay them?
Posted by The Blue Cross, Monday, 12 May 2008 1:57:38 PM
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Blue-cross, farmers groups have been advocating a HECS-style loan from at least the last 4 years, but have been unable to attract the interest of this government OR the previous one. Farmers are acutely aware of the public perception of grant money, and 99% would prefer a system that saw a pay back requirement once income returned.

As for farmers performing poorly, they have been shown to have the highest productivity increases of any Australian industry - this has had to happen in order for returns to stay static and not decline, as prior to the recent increases, real commodity prices in most areas have not increased since the 70's. Unfortunately, input costs have, and continue to climb sharply.

As for farmers and other groups being required to give a "return on investment" there is no such requirement for uni students to be productive. Indeed there are students with HECS debts that have been static for 10 years, as their income has never gone over the repayment threshold - money down the drain!
Posted by Country Gal, Monday, 12 May 2008 4:46:09 PM
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Andrew, this proposal would be so much better than the status quo, as it would either lead to more government spending for the same price or less spending for the same thing as we currently have. Both would have huge efficiency dividends.

But Australians already have two very effective ways of smoothing over their costs throughout life. One is having a diversified long term savings plan. The other is insurance.

For the latter, farmers offer a particularly good example. A quick google search of 'crop insurance' will give plenty of Australian companies that provide exactly what government is doing now, and what arguably all farmers should have done years ago. It comes at their own cost, so would probably lead to less Australian farming over all (not neccessarily a bad thing). And it offers competition and accountability, neither of which exists in the current arrangement.

Personally, I don't think the AIS should exist at all, at least not for sports as profitable as the ones you mentioned. Surely the already existing sponsors (and others, and the existing private organisations... and parents) should be able to support the training of the more talented young Australian tennis and soccer players, with both sides benefitting.

I already don't agree with the current spending on families. As you probably know, when the current revenue boost starts to pitter away, a lot of these aren't going to be affordable. And yet parents are having children now that they can't really afford already except for these massively generous government payments. Replacing them could easily be much worse.

The idea for fine defaulters is a good one, but I must be missing something in terms of what it has to do with HECS.

The government already undermines private investment in higher education (and the incentives that come with it) with the artificially cheap HECS. Using this formula elsewhere could lead to a huge reduction in private investment in general as politicians sought to use it unneccessarily to win votes.
Posted by concord, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 8:39:46 AM
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Correction: Replacing them [with debt] could easily be much worse.
Posted by concord, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 8:42:28 AM
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HECS style schemes rely on the borrower being better off eventually. That's not always the case. In the early 1990s Victorian graduates were not able to find work unless they left the state. This cohort was about 28 by the time they were earning enough to trigger repayments of their HECS debt. Graduates with globally mobile qualifications are migrating to avoid paying their HECS debt.

I will admit to not being up to date but who says HECS is cheap? Aren't students paying $24,000+ per year for tuition?

On the question of HECS scheme for the unemployed. This assumes that we really do have a low unemployment rate and that people are unemployed for short periods of time. In Crikey yesterday the following article http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080512-ABS-employment-figures-lies-damned-lies-and-statistics.html
states that "There are currently two million Australians who are unemployed and are chasing 182,000 vacancies. Of the two million, 1.75 million are on one of the six different dole payments and are subject to the "works test" administered by Centrelink."

"Let's look at how the more than two million unemployed are made up:

Monthly or headline unemployed: 465,000 approx.

Then the following Australians are excluded from the monthly figures:

Those actively looking for work: 729,000 / or 977,300, but are not available to start work in the survey week but are able to start work within four weeks of the survey date. Pretty well all of these unemployed are on the dole and subject to the "works test" or "mutual obligation" as the current fancy title refers."
"Finally, on this point we can add at least 400,000 who work between one and 14 hours who are counted as being employed. The vast majority want to work more hours. They are counted as being "employed" in Australia, but in many other countries would be counted as being unemployed. For example in Singapore or Germany you have to work 15 hours or more in the survey week to be counted as employed. The person who works an hour a week in Australia has the same status in the employment statistics as one who works 40 hours!"
Posted by billie, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 8:56:43 AM
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Not a bad idea. Sort of "mico bank" perhaps.
How about a "Future fund"?

Unfortunately I don't agree with HECS as a concept at all.

why should we penalise people who try to get an education?
If Venezuela and Cuba can afford free education so too can we.
Is HECS 'Nation Building'?
Any guesses why we have a massive 'skills shortage'?

Don't pay the dole pay student allowances.
Build some accommodation that kids can afford.

I have two children one struggling on an OS scholarship with NO support from government here despite my disability status.

The other in a good, but very demanding, job paying off her HECS and wondering how she will ever afford a home.

Free isn't fair
http://www.diverseeducation.com/artman/publish/article_10833.shtml
Some European Models:-
http://www.openeducation.net/
Venezuela
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8461.htm
Posted by michael2, Monday, 19 May 2008 5:29:05 PM
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