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The Forum > Article Comments > More teaching, less preaching > Comments

More teaching, less preaching : Comments

By Nigel Freitas, published 13/5/2008

The academic bias in our education system is harming educational standards and intellectual diversity.

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I think the point of the original article is that people of one viewpoint are unhappy that people of a different viewpoint have the numbers in a field that the first set of people won’t enter themselves. The solution is obvious: more right-wingers will have to put up with the overwork, the stress, the mistreatment, the constant pointless change, the comparatively poor pay and the ceaseless denigration that all those “lefties” in schools and universities put up with.
Posted by Chris C, Sunday, 18 May 2008 4:03:56 PM
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You are a total fool Chris.

In relation to your last comment, what you are essentially saying is that non-left students ought to be bullied and discriminated against because most of them are not interested in joining the academic profession. That is the most stupid and illogical view I have seen put forward in a long time.

If you believe it's ok to persecute others on the basis of their political beliefs, I suggest you go to Cuba or China, where you will be ruled by people of the same view. I bet you are a lefty who supports Chavez and Hamas and thinks that Saddaam should never have been overthrown. Well I think I now know why.

In relation to your previous points:

- The ministerial order banning teachers debating education.

Like all public sector departments, public servants are supposed to be politically impartial. Some teachers tend to want to politicise education. Of course they should not in the conduct of their occupations. Taxpayers pay them to teach, not to argue for the introduction of Marxism into English and history classes.


- The abolition of the teacher registration boards

This is in accordance with making education a more modern profession, where teachers are not approved or registered by bureaucrats, but are free to be employed by the department as the department sees fit.

- The placement of teachers on short-term contracts.

There's nothing wrong with this, given that it allows for flexible schools who can employ staff in accordance with their requirements.

- The introduction of performance bonuses

lol. There's something wrong with this? That's hilarious. Obviously providing incentives for good performance is just soooo wrong!

- Discrimination against parents who were also teachers in school council elections.

This is fair enough, given that teachers already exercise more power and influence than parents. The last thing we want is a concentration of power into the hands of a small clique.
Posted by AJFA, Monday, 19 May 2008 5:41:55 PM
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AJFA,

No, I did not say that non-left students should be bullied or discriminated against. There is a contradiction in your suggesting that I might believe that ‘it's ok to persecute others on the basis of their political beliefs’ – something I most definitely do not believe, something I have given no indication of ever believing either on this forum or anywhere else and something which I have opposed for 40 years - and your supporting the ministerial order banning teachers debating education, which had nothing to do with the classroom but purported to prevent teachers making public comment on educational issues, something that all citizens should be free to do in a democracy, irrespective of their profession, and a right that you now deny in a discussion supposedly about freedom on campuses.

The teacher registration boards did not consist of bureaucrats but teachers, teacher educators and employer representatives, in the same way that doctors have a Medical Practitioners Board and nurses have a Nurses Board. The department used to employ people with no teaching qualifications at all until the Hamer Liberal Government established the teacher registration system in the 1970s. We are fortunate that the Bracks Labor Government has re-established it via the Victorian Institute of Teaching.

Short-term contracts were not necessary to allow flexibility in employment prior to 1992. They were introduced to intimate teachers who might speak up for themselves and to better allow exploitation by principals.

Performance bonuses did not provide incentives for good performance. They simply concentrated power in the hands of the principals in order to carry out the government’s political agenda.

There is yet another contradiction in that you rightly object to discrimination against students but accept discrimination against teachers who happen to be parents. Power could not be concentrated in a small clique as parents elected their parent members who formed the majority on school councils. Surely, it is up to them if they think that a parent who is also a teacher –at another school – is their best representative.
Posted by Chris C, Monday, 19 May 2008 10:58:58 PM
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Correction: ‘intimidate teachers’

Making bets about what I would believe is not an argument. Indeed it has just led you to make some more assumptions for which you have no evidence, for which you can have no evidence. I hope you are never a judge. You may think you ‘know why’ I supposedly would want to live in China or Cuba or support Chavez and Hamas, but there is no logical connection between anything I have posted and this particular list.

Cuba is a fraudulent communist dictatorship that locks up dissidents. How can I, unlike you, a believer in freedom of speech even for teachers, possibly support such a government? China is a one-party state that is freer than 30 years ago but much less free than it needs to be. How can I, unlike you, a supporter of parents’ rights to elect fellow parents, even if they are teachers, to school councils, support such a government? I don’t want to live in either place.

Chavez is a nutty would-be dictator. How can I, an activist for political freedom for 40 years, support such a person? I don’t. Hamas is a terrorist organization. How can I, an advocate for the peaceful processes of democracy and a long-time opponent of violence, support such an organisation? I don’t. Saddam needed to be overthrown, but the doing of it has been a disaster. There is nothing I have said that provides any evidence for your claims that I would support any of these. They constitute just another standard list used as substitutes for reasoning.

Nothing I have said here makes me a ‘lefty’ in any mainstream political discourse, but I can live with the label as it tells me how far to the right the centre is on your political spectrum and, insofar as you are representative of Liberals, how far to the right the party of Sir Robert Menzies has moved. Perhaps that is why he stopped voting for it.

Chris Curtis
(Vice-president, Victorian DLP, 1976-78)
Posted by Chris C, Monday, 19 May 2008 11:02:15 PM
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Chris,

I have re-read your comment and I have concluded I was too lazy to read it carefully. I have therefore mis-judged you. For that I apologise.

I don't agree with you on all of the education stuff, but I should have been more polite.

Sorry mate.
Posted by AJFA, Tuesday, 20 May 2008 6:51:38 PM
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AJFA,

I accept your apology. People tend to get very heated on blogs, and far worse than you I might add. I try to stick to the issues. I think the Liberals have moved to the right, and so has the ALP. In fact, on economic issues, IR, welfare, regulation, etc, today’s ALP is to the right of the old DLP.

In my day, the ‘Left’ smashed property, imprisoned you and bashed you up while expressing mad beliefs in the Great Helmsman Mao. Nowadays the ‘Left’ is anyone, including former officials of the DLP, who opposes WorksocalledChoices.

I am sure there are cases of misuse of power by academics and teachers, and they cannot be justified, but I think they are rare. I never saw an example of political bias by a teacher in my 33 years. In other cases, bias is in the eye of the beholder. So someone of a left opinion will see his or her view as perfectly logical and not understand how anyone could see it as biased. The same applies to people with right opinions. Thus, if there were more righties in academia, students would see a wider range of views. However, it is up to righties to join. No one can make them, and there Is not much point complaining for m the sidelines. Please note that I use terms like left and right as fuzzy approximations that in fact conceal lots of variation. Thus, as a former official of the DLP, I think of myself as a centre left social democrat, even though many saw the DLP as far right - a view that never made any sense to me.

You can be anti-WorkChoices, pro-education and anti-Castro at the same time. Not everything fits into the old left-right divide. There is at least one former La Trobe Maoist, Barry York, who has written to the press supporting the US invasion of Iraq – to give a bizarre example of pick and choose.
Posted by Chris C, Wednesday, 21 May 2008 12:04:43 PM
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