The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > More teaching, less preaching > Comments

More teaching, less preaching : Comments

By Nigel Freitas, published 13/5/2008

The academic bias in our education system is harming educational standards and intellectual diversity.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. Page 7
  9. 8
  10. 9
  11. All
"Instead we find the politics exemplified by the Young Liberals of trying to coalesce a small group around a straw person enemy, in this case "left-wing" academics."

Passy,

The NAZIS did the same thing, as above, in 1930s to win ower; put fear into the middle-class, farmers and merchants. The weakther groups could see their underclass, whom they looked down on and didn't want become them. Here, as noted, the key word is fear. The NAZIs made those with some wealth afraid of the Jews and socialists* [portrayed as cummunists]. They feared loosing their status. A bit like making an Indian Brahmin fear s/he might become an untouchable.

It wasn't a massive campaign. Jst hundreds of Pauline Hansons placed into small towns. Where much is heard about German's debt because of reparations too little about the micro-side of things.

* The NAZIs actually adopted the socialists' reconstruction policies, thems.

Academia is full to the brim of extreme lefties perhaps the PE Department and the Liberal Arts will attract more than its fair show by virture of the discipline. But Academics autonomy over all and liberalism in the philisophic sense of the world, i.e, independent thinking and autonomy from govenment influence, including the left.

The Coalition is to the right of Liberalism. The ALP seems to transitioning from a Leftist party, towards the progressive Right, to a true Liberal Party. The Unions are loosing power; but, in the Coalition the Farmers, are still a powerful self-centred special interest group. The Farmers weild much more power than academics, politically
Posted by Oliver, Thursday, 15 May 2008 1:39:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Actually HRS, in my callow youth I set up a course called Political Economy and Tax. It got an OK number of students in the first two years, including curious Young liberals. They did OK rebutting my arguments.

Then numbers fell. So I cancelled the course. The all knowing market wasn't ready for such a course, I guess.

But the point is that Unis are not hotbeds of radicalism. If there were all these lefties running courses and inculcating their ideas into students, gee, surely that would reflect itself in a radical student population and a militant group of teachers striking often for higher wages and better conditions. I must have missed something because my impression of campus these days is that all is quiet except for a small group of lefties of various persuasions, most of whom are too small to really influence any outcomes.

Maybe it is true their attempts at brainwashing fail. I think a better explanation is that there isn't brainwashing but intellectual enquiry and debate. Most students accept a diversity of views and have enough self-confidence to be able to argue their own point of view successfully, and undertake analysis and research appropriately through the prism of their own world view. This apparently is not the case for the Young liberals.

So it may be their attacks on free speech are a reflection of their own insecurities about their place in the world and the worth of their own ideas.

I just think all of this nonsense is a poor attempt by the YLs to silence those they disagree with, and to rebuild their base around simplistic ideas of hate and fear. This appears to be a hangover from the Howard era, so it is possible like most generals the Young Liberals are fighting the last war, not the present one.
Posted by Passy, Thursday, 15 May 2008 9:23:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Mr Right,

The ABS Adult Literacy and Life Skills Survey suggests that, contrary to the widespread claims of dumbing down over the past few decades, older people have lower levels of literacy than younger people:
‘Literacy levels tended to decrease with age, with higher proportions of people in the older age groups attaining skill scores lower than Level 3. The exception to this was the 15 to 19 years age group, which had lower levels of literacy than the 20 to 24 year age group.’

The PISA tests ((PISA2006_PISAinbrief.pdf) are developed by the OECD and have a good level of trustworthiness. I don’t know of anyone ever claiming any “fudging” in them.

HRS,

I’d take complaints from parents and students with a grain of salt. I once failed an essay that a student had copied from an encyclopedia. I asked her to redo it under my supervision, but her mother defended her right to copy and the student refused to repeat the topic. She could easily spin the story as one about me not passing her work because I disagreed with her opinion.

Today’s Australian reports bias from the University of Queensland as a student union president “associated with the Liberal Party” has justified a ban on a poster being put on campus:
‘Asked if it precluded other viewpoints being put forward in debate on campus, he said: “It does.”’
(“Student body forbids ‘anti-abortion’ poster”)

There was also a report on tonight’s ABC news of a university academic being told by his university to apologise for expressing an opinion on radio re a drug made by CSL, a company in partnership with the university. Another not so left example of free speech under attack.

AJFA,

More examples of Liberal damage to education that had nothing to do with saving money are:
The ministerial order banning teachers debating education,
The abolition of the teacher registration boards,
The placement of teachers on short-term contracts,
The introduction of performance bonuses,
The abolition of local administrative committees,
Discrimination against parents who were also teachers in school council elections.
Posted by Chris C, Thursday, 15 May 2008 10:19:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
"Actually HRS, in my callow youth I set up a course called Political Economy and Tax. It got an OK number of students in the first two years, including curious Young liberals. They did OK rebutting my arguments." - Passy

The Political Economy Department at The University of Sydney might be receptive. The Late Ted Wheelwright's creation. Marxism and Instiuitional Economics are taught. John Hewson gave the more orthodox lessons.

Try Professor Frank Stilwell or Dr sterwart Rosewarne, both are really friendly, and provided the curriculum is well written, would, I suspect, support you. If not, perhaps, an article in JAPE.

I would have loved have met Veblen. Seemingly, a brilliant but eccentric character, especially on the topic of the diversity dogs and pecuniary emulation of the upper classes by the not-so-well-to-do. :-) More seriously, Veblen did predict that the too rapid advancement from feudal to advanced societies was dangerous: i.e, Germany and Japan. [High power distance {Mulder, Hofstede} and high technology.

The above doctrines are Left of me, politically, but I would acknowledge threads on insightful observations by many authors.

In the nineteen century, when economics and sociology were enjoined, and now, The Law is an apt topic to discuss: e.g., Transitions of industrial laws from Dickens to now. Heaps of Compare and Contrast for students to discuss.

Did you note Adam Smith's [1776] comments above not being far removed from Marx? Had it been falsely stated, it was written by Marx, the Young Liberals would have attacked it as Communism. Perhaps, it is not the ideology that wins hearts, rather the filterer, whom presents the ideology to its audience.

Cheers.
Posted by Oliver, Thursday, 15 May 2008 10:46:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Chris C,
I don’t think teachers should be completely dismissive of students or parents. I’ve attended a lot of chemistry classes, and I’ve seen some virtual learning programs recently that were the equal to (if not better) than any chemistry class with a teacher I have attended, and one program that covered chemistry up to grade 12 sold for only $10.

University correspondence courses have also been around for many years, and the situation is developing where it is not that necessary to have an actual teacher standing in front of a class, particularly if the teacher has obvious prejudices, whether they be gender, race, class or political prejudices.

Not listening to students or parents may also be the reason why so many parents have now taken their children from government schools.

Passy,
Most things go in circles, and if someone keeps going to the left or right, they will probably go in a circle.

However as I have shown in a previous post, the Young Liberals are not the only people in Australia or elsewhere who are concerned about the biases or prejudices being shown by teachers in universities or in high schools.

As indicated to Chris C, teachers are not that necessary, and if they do have obvious prejudices, they are simply hastening the demise of the teaching profession (or speeding up the introduction of more virtual learning systems).
Posted by HRS, Friday, 16 May 2008 10:15:17 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As Basil Fawlty might comment, this article specializes in stating "the bleedin' obvious". Diversity of views is good, debate is good, but these key elements to open thought and education have been lacking in our Australian education system - for decades. The bar-faced Left-bias and stifling of debate starts in Primary School, progresses to High School and becomes all-encompassing by the time students reach University.

There is only 1 allowable opinion on the issues of Iraq, David Hicks, the economy, Workchoices, aboriginal issues. Any attempt to perceive an issue from a different viewpoint is supressed.

I attended 10 different schools from Primary to University, across several state school systems. The problem was consistent wherever I went. Although I was a top student, it was always made painfully clear that I had to tow the line on the narrow political views of my teachers. I have been personally marked down and scolded for having a reasonable, non-emotive but different view on issues.

The only amusement I get from this discussion is the claim by anyone that this bias isn't apparent, all-pervading and obvious. To deny it exists stretches credibility too far.

Hopefully something can be done about it, for the betterment of our students and our nation.
Posted by cybacaT, Saturday, 17 May 2008 10:59:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. Page 7
  9. 8
  10. 9
  11. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy