A thought provoking article. Though I'm with Passy re the left supporting conservative Islam. That's just illogical. The left has as little sympathy for fundamentalist Islam as it would for fundamentalist Christianity. Religious ideologies do not sit comfortably with socialist philosophy.

The supposed support for Islam from the 'left' is the result from the insane diatribes from the conservative Christian right provoking a response to a more measured middle ground.

I agree wholeheartedly with Bronwyn that we need to re establish Australia's secularism. Religious beliefs of any sort belong to the personal realm and not the public.

To live a life congruent with your spiritual beliefs is an individual's responsibility. Not the state's.

In this secular nation all information, thoughts and philosophies are to be accessible to its citizens in its public institutions such as schools and universities and open to debate and scrutiny

CJ says:

<<In fact, that is exactly what I predict over the next generation or two.>>

Sheesh..and I thought "I" was the wanna be prophet here :)

CJ.. of course such a thing is possible. At issue though, is how Islam should be interpreted. Now.. we can indeed allow for a semi secular approach, perhaps where the 'good' in Islam is affirmed and the bad is purged.
How this would impact the Quran is as follows: from the 23rd Surah which is a chapter specifically dedicated to the definition of "The Believers" i.e.. it answers the question 'What is a Muslim'?

23:1 Successful indeed are the believers (TICK)
23:2 who are reverent during their Contact Prayers (TICK)
23:3 And they avoid vain talk. (TICK)
23:4 And they give their obligatory charity (Zakat). (TICK)
23:5 And they maintain their chastity. (TICK)
23:6 Only with their spouses, or those who are rightfully theirs, do they have sexual relations; they are not to be blamed. (WOOPS!)

aah.. now verse 6 would have to be removed from the Quran, because it specifically authorizes sexual relations with captive slave girls.

Now..VANILLA... you need a good verbal spanking, (a-gain) my theological training did not rip me off, it enhanced my life immeasurably.
Do you have any difficulty in grasping the above problem in the 23rd surah? and the problem you have in suggesting I don't have much of a clue is this. Mohammad is the one who said this, but Muslims believe it was ALLAH.. in either case, if you attack it, you will find any Muslim thinking badly of you. Our dear friend FH has given his view on this, he feels that "Islam discouraged slavery" and he emphasizes that to free a slave was commendable. Now.. this understanding is highly debatable, and to seek authoritative answers, usually Muslims will ask an Imam who will in turn refer to..the SCHOOLs I mentioned. (show me I'm wrong :)

paulr, do you now see my point? of course you are right, that taking one sentence out of leviticus is an absurd manner in which to judge christianity. but this is exactly the type of lunacy in which boaz engages in order to slur islam.

my argument here is not with christianity. it is with smug and obtuse religiously inspired bigotry, as stunningly exemplified by boaz.

Dear Passy...

regarding the left's support for Muslims, (as opposed to "Islam") there is PLENTY of evidence mate.

1/ "Resistance/Socialist Alliance"

2/ "Palestinian Solidarity Network"

3/ "The 'anti racism' rally organized by Dean Mighell of the ETU in Brunswick after Abdullah Merhi was arrested on terrorism charges,
http://www.etu.asn.au/2006/hp_townhall.html

Crazy stuff... 'innocence by association' i.e. if ur in the ETU or ur brother is.. you are 'sqeaky clean' b4 the evidence is tested in court!

4/ "Anti Racism" rally in Sydney after Cronulla. Left+Lebanese Muslims and others.

I've been to a couple of these Palestinian demo's and there are plenty of Leftists and Muslims present.

What the left is doing, is supporting anyone where they think there is a political buck in it... I honestly feel the left is using the Muslims just as much as the Muslims are using the Left. But the fundamental ideological positions are as far apart as the East is from the West.

The Left does not realize that the 'injustice' the Muslims refer to, is a result of their THEOLOGICAL position as much as anything else.
(Please read the Hamas Charter, I've given the link often enough)
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
Part III article 11

I am both Muslim and on the left, politically. I don't think that leftist movements and individuals have supported the ideology conservative Islam. However, I do think that in attempting to build (very necessary) anti-racist alliances, some on the left have unwittingly strengthened the standing of conservatives within Muslim communities. I'm getting a bit fed up of having well-meaning people tell me "oh, I met Conservative Muslim Male Media Hate Figure at a forum, and he was really lovely." By which they mean "not the monster that the Daily Telegraph made him seem". But just because someone isn't as immediately horrible as the Daily Tele would have us believe doesn't mean that they don't bully and intimidate those in their own community. The fact that left wing and progressive movements have provided platforms for such conservatives in their efforts to provide support for Muslim communities in general has increased the power of conservatives within their own communities.

BOAZ_David, in response to my criticism that there is no evidence that the left supports conservative Islam names "Resistance/Socialist Alliance".

Naming Resistance/Socialist Alliance is evidence of nothing.

Anti-racism activity (for example) will bring in those who are the victims (or see themselves as the victims) of racism as well as the Left. So what? Opposition to racism is not support for conservative Islam.

This guilt by association is beyond the pale (and typical of the right. You only have to look at the Australian's disgusting campaign against Griffith university for accepting $100,000 from Saudi sources. This is xenophobia in the guise of journalism. The irony is the Saudis have a 6 per cent stake in News corp.)

Guilt by association is nonsense (and indeed is the basis for the racist campaign against Dr Haneef.)

I have been to many demos in my life. There have been socialists, anarchists, neo-liberals, conservatives, Christians, atheists, unionists, ALP people, greens, Democrats, unaligned, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, even Liberals on some occasions, just to name a few. That doesn't make me one of any of those groups (although I am a socialist and unionist and proud of it.) We are united on the issue. That is what brings us together, not agreement with the the philosophies of all those who demonstrate.

To tar me with the brush of those who attend is just childish.

anarkali makes a better point. They say: "The fact that left wing and progressive movements have provided platforms for such conservatives in their efforts to provide support for Muslim communities in general has increased the power of conservatives within their own communities."

I am not aware of where this occurs or has occurred (Canberra is a bit isolated) but suspect you cannot hold an anti-Cronulla riots demo (for example) without inviting speakers whom you disagree with vehemently, but accept they represent some section of the protesters. To not invite them possibly replicates the racism you are protesting against.

If we are serious about secularism, Bronwyn, we should stop funding Christian schools and allow teachers of all persuasions to teach there.