http://multi-media.modernwriters.org/modules/smartmedia/clip.php?categoryid=3&folderid=4&clipid=49

Then take another 3 or so minutes to watch this one Paul, then get back to us all about glorious war and glorious hero soldiers who sign up to slaughter and maim.

Marilyn, I'm not following this argument but in another thread I have had a discussion with PaulL. I noticed this parallel display and felt I had to comment as I found this statement priceless (PaulL is one of the most tendentious, biased posters on OLO). Example from a single post of his:

PaulL.>"Another fact-free rant from Marilyn. For goodness sake Marilyn, at least attempt to provide some evidence for your blanket assertions."

Then,

PaulL.>"The reason the so-called “peace movement” has so much trouble getting through to the mainstream is that people like Marilyn and SJF want to slag off the soldiers and their achievements. That’s why you’ll never be more than a fringe group of disaffected whingers."

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Iraq_War#Early_opposition

"The opposition to the war manifested itself most visibly in a series of global protests against the Iraq War during February 2003, just prior the Iraq invasion beginning on March 20, 2003.

"Poll results available from Gallup International, as well as local sources for most of Europe, West and East, showed that support for a war carried out "unilaterally by America and its allies" did not rise above 11 percent in any country. Support for a war if mandated by the UN ranged from 13 percent (Spain) to 51 percent (Netherlands)." [1]

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You see the "peace movement" was not only mainstream, it was almost universally accepted by people around the world.

At the same time as Paul L talks about "slagging off" soldiers he does exactly that to those who have a different viewpoint, which he invariably labels as "leftist". (Eg. "That’s why you’ll never be more than a fringe group of disaffected whingers."-paul l. in his description of the "peace movement").

OH MY GOD,

After suggesting that I and many others have been mythologizing our soldiers, I get,not one but two, links TO POEMS. Talk about mythologizing.

You people really are fruitloops. That’s your evidence? Poetry? WTF is that evidence of except for the “tortured soul” of the ARTISTE? You send me “ART” as evidence.

I really have to laugh. This is the weakest attempt at rebuttal I have yet encountered since Ginx started having fun with peoples online TAG names.

Marilyn

>> “All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” Often ascribed to Edmund Burke

I don’t glorify war. I have never in my posts suggested that war is glorious or good.

What I said is that those who have fought and died for their country deserve respect. Soldiers don’t decide what wars they go and fight. They trust that the gov’t makes the right call on that. They don’t have the luxury of extended soul searching. They don’t have the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. There job is to do what they are told by gov’t. The people WE elect. So don’t blame soldiers for wars, blame gov’ts and more specifically the people that voted for them.

I see you couldn’t answer a single question I asked you. The reason for this is that you post without thinking, regularly without any semblance of the truth. This may be on line OPINION but we aren’t going to let you get away with stating something as fact without having some evidence.

So Marilyn if you can’t see the difference between, revering soldiers who sacrificed their lives for their country, and loving war, then you aren’t worth any more of my time.

Chris,

Whatever you may think most decisions during wartime are between bad and worse. Someone has to make those decisions because if we left it up to opinion polls nothing would ever get done.

>> “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle”. Edmund Burke

BTW the poetry was Sentimental SH!T.

Pericles,

‘How would we feel about ourselves if we had refused to respond to the call, and instead taken advantage of the impoverishment of other countries, as did Switzerland and Ireland?’

Your disdain for Ireland’s neutrality in WWII is a bit rich. Why on earth would they want to help fight Britain’s wars when they had been fighting the British military occupation of their own country for 600 years?

And lest we forget all those young Englishmen who responded to the call to form part of an army of occupation whose orders were to invade, dispossess, exploit, harass, impoverish, disenfranchise, evict, starve and massacre the Irish people in their own country.

And as for how I'd feel if Australia had refused to 'respond to the call'?

In a world where leaders sheepishly follow tyrants and superpowers into one counterproductive war after another, I'd feel intensely proud to be living in a country that displayed the moral courage to say No.

How did they suddenly become "Britain’s wars", SJF?

>>Why on earth would [Ireland] want to help fight Britain’s wars when they had been fighting the British military occupation of their own country for 600 years?<<

England and France had been at war even longer (1066 ring a bell? Agincourt? Crécy?) yet it was Britain who came to the aid of the French in 1939.

My point was that moral principles are involved in selflessly supporting what was clearly right - as Australia did - as opposed to gleefully taking advantage of others' misfortunes.

>>In a world where leaders sheepishly follow tyrants and superpowers into one counterproductive war after another, I'd feel intensely proud to be living in a country that displayed the moral courage to say No.<<

If that is how you define courage, it isn't surprising you support the Irish stance on opposing Hitler.

It must have taken immense courage to avoid that particular battle, given the massive sacrifices made by so many other countries.

The more others suffer, the more courage you display by avoiding the fight.

Neat. You must be so proud.

Right Paul, you tell the families of the slaughtered people it was sentimental s..t. Which is precisely what I call ANZAC day because it is about people we didn't know, who died stupidly, over 90 years ago in a foreign country for no reason.

Whereas the innocent victims of Fallujah were murdered by the US and they should be remembered with some sentiment as they didn't invade, bomb or hurt anyone.