Feminist propensity to overvalue female economic contribution and undermine male roles to “boys club” participation and longer “attendance” is not just a tired old cliché, but a disingenuous expose of the underlying causes for such “gaps”.

Men’s economic exploitation may have been documented over the millennia, but it’s still men who predominantly contribute to state coffers and household budgets. I doubt women will ever freely choose to commandeer this role - not even in their wildest Marxist fantasy.

I can recall several years of financial hardship as a young family with a mortgage, with me as sole breadwinner, my ex as full-time mother and part time student. When she returned to work after our youngest child entered preschool, her income was essentially her money. After a couple of years of unsuccessful negotiation, I unilaterally reduced the household budget to construct an opportunity for proportional contribution. Needless to say, CSA was collecting her entitlements within a year or so.

The dumbest feminist arguments I see on these threads are those that do not take into account any preceding choice, effort, priority, or responsibility. I admit breaking out into uncontrollable laughter when I hear about unpaid work – who directs such work, who benefits from it, and if someone (even indirectly) pays for it, what protection do they have against over servicing?

What do women want? To do as they please, and be paid for it “equally”.

I wasn't going to respond to this thread because the article is such an amateurish hodge-podge I couldn't believe it was intended to be serious. Is this the best that a "Dr" and a "Professor" can collectively produce? How embarrassing for Curtin Uni.

An example:"While orthodox economists and neo-liberals consistently point to women’s “choices” as the primary reason for the gender wage gap, a closer analysis shows that the dominance of normative gender discourses in policy making and research, particularly in relation to care-giving responsibilities, plays a significant role in shaping women’s and men’s choices."

There is no "normative gender discourse". Women have a womb and many of them have functional breasts that dispense milk and not vinegar, therefore it is "normative" for them to bear children and having done so, they generally choose to spend their time caring for them whilst young. This is not only "normative", it is "biological". Men, meanwhile, continue working throughout the process. This is "pragmatic".

What is becoming "normative" however, is the profession of a "pro-feminist" viewpoint, which of course is what this article is all about.

The article is riddled with jargon-laden, puerile straw-clutching examples of "inequality" like: "The benefits of affirmative action policies and feminist strategies of this era are now distant memories for many women, including Aboriginal women, women who identify as lesbian and women living with a disability remain marginalised within the labour market."

All those groups ARE marginal, just as their male counterparts are. It's not a gender issue, nor should it be.

Then there's this beauty: "In some sectors (for example, in hospitality) a growing trend towards offering shorter shifts can be identified as a way of minimising costs (i.e. saving on payments for breaks). Part-time work is particularly favoured by women in the key child-rearing years (35-44)."

erm...if women "favour" part-time work and employers are prepared to offer it, what's the problem? According to our brilliant doc and prof, it seems to be somehow bad that employers might be benefitting from this congruence of interests.

I didn't get any further. It's drivel.

I’d like to know what the authors believe is a “masculine culture”, although this would have to be explained in a completely non-sexist way of course.

The authors seem to have an argument regards what women want. In all the studies I have seen regards this, women prefer to work less work hours than men, or they prefer men to be the primary breadwinner.

This is even for women who have no dependant children.

http://www.melbourneinstitute.com/wp/wp2004n01.pdf

Women work less work hours than men, and are paid less than men.

Women also pay less tax than men, and also spend more money than men.

So I think women have the better of the deal, although I have never heard any academic mention this.

HRS: "I think women have the better of the deal, although I have never heard any academic mention this."

You won't. To do so would invite immediate expulsion from the "grrrls club". Far better to write drivel in the knowledge that your Professor both approves and is incapable of doing any better and thereby keep your foot firmly on the treads of the stairway to academic heaven - tenure.

The income difference in WA is interesting. Talking to my sister last night (a shift supervisor and trainer in a large mine in WA), she mentioned a job-offer that required a fly-in-fly-out arrangement for a remote mine. I assumed that this type of work would be very male-dominated. According to her, not so. Around 43% of such work is performed by women. Much of the accommodation at remote sites are couple accomodation (this is what she was looking at as she is married). If the mining industry has close to 50% female representation, why are there such high pay discrepancies?

The comment about playing with children not being work is interesting. If this is the case, why then do we have to pay for childcare if we have to return to work. Surely if playing with children has no value, then there is no place for childcare centres. The fact is that rather than simply seeing it as playing, it should be viewed as child development, and it is quite valuable, no matter who performs it.

I think a lot of the restricting factors on the roles that men and women both choose to play and are sometimes forced to play are very dependant on attitudes taught at home whilst growing up. We are still "feeling the pinch" from older generations that had more traditionalist approachs. Women may seek lower paid jobs in administration (for example) if they are taught overtly or covertly that they are not smart enough to do anything else. If they are taught by their mothers that any money they earn is their own, then chances are that they will carry this attitude the rest of their lives. Those that come from families where a joint approach was taken to income-earning and budget spending will likewise generally carry a fairer approach the rest of their lives. The problem is that changes in attitudes on such things take longer than 1 generation, and often will take several before it filters through society in general.

Hi country Gal,
Perhaps in the "specific" area and min that your sister is working in, there are similar numbers of women, but this certainly is not the case in mining in general...

Men tend to do the dirty, dangerous and remote work... how many garbos, pub bouncers (security), long-distance truckies or farm labourers do you think are women?

Not surprisingly these horrible and anti-social jobs have to be paid more... so men's average wage goes up because of those men willing to do these jobs.

Another important factor is the fact that men REMAIN working long hours once they become fathers... in fact they INCREASE their hours, because they still have a mortgage to pay, and the wife is no longer contributing... somebody has to take up the shortfall.

This is tragic, because it leads to men being marginalised in the home, and virtual strangers to their children... :-(

"playing with children not being work"
I wasn't saying it has no value, I was pointing out that for most people, this type of work, "House-work" is much more satisfying and rewarding and plesant than "Work-work"

I wasn't de-valuing it, quite the contrary, I was saying that it is "Great work if you can get it!" My point is that this lovely, enjoyable and important work tends to be grabbed by women, leaving their husbands to do the less enjoyable hard-slog of "work-work".

Women playing with the kids are their own boss, manage their own time, set their own goals (for child development, play, cleanliness etc). What do women want, to be do as they please? Or to be paid equally for it?

www.Fathers4Equality-Australi.org
PartTimeParent@pobox.com