I think mit might be too late for Israel and weight of numbers both within Israel and on it's borders will see it's demise. No amount of weasel words or false hopes and expectations can prevent that particular overwhelming.

The lose of support of the rest of the world for Israel as it grapples, in it's usual violenct and militaristic manner, is now accelerating.

As the current US recession deepens the Israeli financial life-support will choke.

Naaaaah I feel such discussion as this article attempts is now all too little and far too late.

Just look at how ineffective Israel was recently in Lebanon and especially in Gaza. Look at how much condemnation the barbarism received. Israel can't even eliminate a bunch of backyard terrorists. Sure it can kill but those killed will simply be replaced by from a growing and more repressed people.

And once the situation get's all to hard for the Western Liberal Democracies they will wash their hands in the manner of Herod and withdraw support and as sure as Cain killed Abel we won't send troops in support.

Another Holocaust? Well it would be the second in the region and the third in the world in the last 100 years.

This is a good example why a two-state solution is no longer viable.

Whilst the establishment of the settlements, with no possible doubt, was conducted for political reasons and just compensation is due to those disposessed, there is now close to a quarter of a million people living in the West Bank and - as correctly argued - people should have the right to acquire title and live where they like.

Once again, the "problem" isn't the Jewish state or the lack of a Palestinian state, but rather the unequal application of universal rights.

Phillip

I think it is the two states position which creates the problems you are talking about.

To address the horrific Nazi genocide of Jews with the genocide of Palestinians is not and never will solve the situation for Jews or, obviously, Palestinians.

GENEVA CONVENTION...

Legal: The settlements are arguably illegal since they contravene Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention which precludes an occupying power from settling its own citizens in territory taken by military force.

Well.. I guess some people say "Our survival was not at stake when the
Geneva convention was framed, so.. it's irrelevant to us"

LEGAL STATUS?.. let the above speak for itself. No country will allow foreigners to make laws which are going to send it down the gurgler of history.

The only people who abide by it, (The Convention) are those who are secure enough to see that they can abide by it and still survive.

When it comes to the Israel/Palestinian situation.... well.. only time will tell.

67 BORDERS ... what the ? "why" ? who should decide this? I kinda think that those whos blood and guts was spilt defending their country should. If 67 borders.. why stop there ? Lets face it, there are many , HAMAS in particular who want only ONE border.. the one within which there is no Israel.

Well..I'm not going to repeat all that I've said b4.. let history be the judge :)
cheers all.

Passy

You still repeat the myth that Israel was created to provide a solution to the holocaust displacement.

It wasn't. Apart from the Jewish communities who were there from Roman times there were a considerable number who moved there from within the Caliphate. And then the Jews who arrived from Eastern Europe. Over 100 years ago Jerusalem had a majority Jewish population.

The post years saw an influx of European refugees, it also saw an influx of up to a million Jewish refugees from other Arab countries, after centuries of discrimination. Half of that section of Israel which is Jewish comes from Middle Eastern stock. A conveniently forgotten, or denied group.

Jews of course weren't the only non-Muslim group edged out of the Middle East. Christians, Baha'i Druze, many found refuge in Israel.

This is not an anti Muslim rant, but extremism has caused awful hardships for so many including Muslims as a result of a fundamentalism which does not hesitate to kill those it considers infidel. You'd think that the bleeding heart left would show some sympathy for all these people who suffer because of the Islamists but they seem to be to busy criticising Israel who at least has given these minorities a home and the right to vote to everyone.

Logic

Thanks. I don't think anything you say undermines my point. The creation of Israel was an act of genocide against the Palestinians.

And to my mind that creation was a consequence of the Holocaust. It was Edward Said who I think described the Palestinians as the victims of victims.

Certainly there were Jewish people in the area, and I agree some had been there for millenia. And I agree the pogroms in Eastern Europe drove many Jewish people from their homelands and some to Palestine. Many went to the US or to a lesser extent the UK.

Kevin Bray in an article in The Canberra Times on 13 March says this:

"Pre-1948, Arabs owned 94 per cent of the then Palestine and Jews 6 per cent. Today, Gaza and the West Bank comprise 22 per cent of that land, all of which is under Israeli occupation (with more than 550 Israeli checkpoints or road blocks) and almost half of which comprises illegal Israeli settlements (contrary to the Fourth Geneva Convention) with more than 450,000 settlers, Israeli-only roads and restricted military/security zones."

So in my view Palestine was not a land without a people for a people without a land. It was overwhelmingly populated by the Palestinians. The UN deciding that there should be a two state solution does not denigrate from the fact that Israel was founded on the bones of the Palestinians.

A democratic and secular Palestine is in my view the answer, although I accept it is not foreseeable in the present context unless there are developments in neighbouring countries which see the overthrow of the Arab dictatorships.

I think to describe Israel as a democracy is to misunderstand its nature.

It is a state created to allow democracy for a minority while denying it for the majority - the Palestinians. It is a democracy like white South Africa was a democracy.