SPONG? yeeeegads Danielle :) *sends Danielle off for intensive therapy*

WOBBLES.. I'm thrilled that you are investigating the issues.. wonderful.

I re-looked at Galatians, yes, there is more evidence there of the conflict, but the account does not seem to me to be at variance with the accounts in Acts. Given the dynamic of human thinking, and attitude with circumstance, the small differences are easily accounted for in my view.

Fraccy.. isn't it wonderful when you see someone writing according to ones own biases 0_^

TOPIC. We can have common ground with Muslims in basically one thing.
"God is Almighty and One" The problems begin after that, as they declare we "Cannot associate Partners with Allah" (their view of Christ as Son of God) and we cannot accept that "Mohammad is ANY kind of prophet"
So.. the whole thing is kind of moot if you ask me.

I'll leave you all with the verse from 1 John 1

1That which was from the beginning, which
-we have heard, which
-we have seen with our eyes, which
-we have looked at and
-our hands have touched—
this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

BOAZ_David

I am not a Christian, however, I do not have a problem with whatever someone believes as long as they are kind, care about others, and are not judgemental.

However, in all honesty, I think if Christianity has a long term chance of survival,
Bishop Spong and his teachings will be its saving.

As for Muslims and Christians finding any sort of common ground, I think they will have to agree to disagree on religious issues, and follow what I have stated in my first para. This means acceptance and goodwill on both sides.

Prominent Islamic thinker Said Nursi (1876–1960) stated that, if there is a clash, it is between, on the one hand, the civilization envisioned by “people of faith,” or “the God-conscious” and, on the other, a civilization that tries to banish God from everyday life, from politics, economics, and social interaction, and to reduce religion to privately-held beliefs, to ineffective ritual, to colorful folklore. As Richard John Neuhaus famously argued, if the public square becomes a naked, value-free space, then the religious sensitivities of perhaps the majority of its citizens are being disregarded. David Boaz, I'm sure you stongly empathise with this. Most of us hate the violent extemism of those who dare invoke the name of God in in their incitement for violence.

I guess the temptation for non-Muslims is to find a liberal secular Muslim as a conversation partner. But the fact is that the majority of Muslims are not secular and liberal. Almost all Muslims believe that the Qur’an is infallible; the western tradition of ‘textual criticism’ has not developed and is unlikely to develop amongst mainstream Islam.

Said Nursi’s conviction that Islam must play a role of peacemaker in today’s world is paralleled by the declaration of the Catholic Church’s Second Vatican Council that Christians and Muslims together have a common task of working together for the benefit of all to build “peace, liberty, social justice, and moral values.”

Can there be a dialogue, where, between Muslims, outside the Sufis (and even many of them are suspect), and bible believing Christians (where all are suspect) who hold, there isn't more than one (i.e. their) valid approach to God? A purely secular attitude simply cannot enter into a dimension of the required dialogue - it is not through naïveté, a secular approach seeks peaceful resolution, but ignorance.

Fractelle,

Thank you for your support and kind words

relda,

I wish I had the ability write like you ... insightful, profound and a joy to read. Thank you.

The causes of conflicts are economic. They are only superficially caused by religions. What people care about is unfair economi advantage.

Conflict develops where there is an absence or denial of the ability to access, to analyse, to synthesise and to disseminate information freely. (Lack of academic, judicial or media independence are examples of this.)

The absence or the denial of social progress, either for individuals, or for groups, or for society as a whole, can also lead to violence. (Social progress can be perceived as attaining material or professional status.)

In Afghanistan there is 70% illeteracy. This is hardly a condition where academic, judicial or media freedom can thrive. They also have an antiquated feudal system where the majority is excluded from social progress. In Pakistan it is slightly better. the illeteracy there is only 60%.

"Leader" of "islamic" fighters can easily persuade the illeterates and semi-literates that there problem lies outside, by simply appealing to the only thing that is common to them: - their tradition, their religion. If the so called leaders identified the real problem, the powerful vested interest in their own country will see to it that they will not get anywhere.

The causes of conflicts are economic. They are only superficially caused by religions. What people care about is unfair economic advantage.

Conflict develops where there is an absence or denial of the ability to access, to analyse, to synthesise and to disseminate information freely. (Lack of academic, judicial or media independence are examples of this.)

The absence or the denial of social progress, either for individuals, or for groups, or for society as a whole, can also lead to violence. (Social progress can be perceived as attaining material or professional status.)

In Afghanistan there is 70% illeteracy. This is hardly a condition where academic, judicial or media freedom can thrive. They also have an antiquated feudal system where the majority is excluded from social progress. In Pakistan it is slightly better. the illeteracy there is only 60%.

"Leaders" of "islamic" fighters can easily persuade the illeterates and semi-literates that there problem lies outside, by simply appealing to the only thing that is common to them: - their tradition, their religion. If the so called leaders identified the real problem, the powerful vested interest in their own country will see to it that they will not get anywhere.

Stephen Cheleda