Perhaps Australian taxpayers will not be have to suffer after all.

Dear Nilay
I don't think there are many true aussies who don't feel sorry for the events that took place, however, if we are sorry I ask you;

Are they sorry for all the houses they wrecked and burned?

Are they sorry for all the cars they run into the ground, abandoned with many only because they ran out of petrol?

Are they sorry for all the welfare they wasted, for the millions of dollars wasted fighting chromming, for the dollars wasted on health. Some $400 million anually to what is less than 2% of the population?

Wake up to yourself, they are not sorry, in fact they will be jumping for joy as this has just handed them a blank cheque for legal cases with regards to compensation. More wasted taxes fighting an unwinable battle!

That's what I love about you Leigh - always first in, and with such warmth and generosity of heart. It must do you some good to clear the bile first thing every day.

At least you are literate enough to read the meaning of the article - which is more than be said for your acolyte, rehctub.

Nilay Patel's article suggests that the structures of Parliament, legal principles and precedents, plus the inadequacy of international "law" combine to guarantee nil compensation to individual Indigenous victims of State Kidnapping, indoctrination and virtual enslavement. I don't doubt that his opinion may be sound but no system of oppression is ever watertight. Justice sometimes is done despite institutional barriers. Many Australian's are constitutionally incapable of removing their racist, rose coloured glasses, and seeing the truth of their history which is one of imperialism, land theft, Aboriginal's exploitation, and narcissistic self-congratulations. As a descendant of a First Fleeter I am not unwilling to admit the overall truth of our past. It is obviously a very Black History. I pray that millions of dollars are directed to the victims of the Stolen Generations

You don't have to scratch the surface too hard to uncover the rehctubs of the World.

Ever heard of cause and effect?

You seem obsessed with the outcomes of lives spent marginalised, tokenised and ultimately ignored by most other Australians.

But yesterday the Parliament struck at the cause, and one of the ways we might one day get past the ugly truth of the stolen generation and all the other ways in which aboriginal Australians have been repeatedly reminded they are sitting in the 3rd class section of the bus is to devise a way to compensate people for the crappy way they were treated.

Don't confuse the right to be compensated with the right to be treated as an equal. In the Trevorrow case the SA Courts agreed that compensation was warranted. That decision occurred outside of any assessment whether the plaintiff was entitled to the same life expectancy as non-aboriginal Australians.

Get it?

Compensating people for any past wrong is fraught with potential inequities but democracy is a messy business.

Get over it. Or more to the point, try to put yourself in the shoes of a SG survivor or if you can't manage that, try to imagine what its like to be treated like lepers the majority of your life by people who don't even want to start trying to understand your culture or your fundamental worth as a human being.

There, I feel much better now.

Finally, thank you Nilay for clarifying issues that were confusing me.

Cheers
tebbutt

Probably more than half "Australians" are first or second generation Greeks, Italians, Chinese etc.

Should they feel guilt for what the British did 200 years ago?

Anyway what about them? A Greek, Italian, Chinese, Jewish, German arrived in Australia 50 years ago with one suitcase, 5 pounds and no knowledge of English. They got a job. Two jobs. They scrimped and saved.
They encouraged their children to finish school and get a degree.

Now they are well off and their children are doctors and lawyers.

Umm.. how many Aboriginal doctors or lawyers do you know?

To leigh and her soul mate rehctub, what about the white Australian Wheat Board using Aboriginal taxpayers money as bribes to get work from our enemies, or the misuse of the drought, flood and other relief paid to parasitic farmers. These bludgers have destroyed the land and used our multi billion taxpayer assistance to do it and now are threatning our water supplies with their irresponsible european farming technigues.

Also what about the two world wars your people got us into that killed millions of people and the destruction of the forrests and pollluting of our waters, not to mention high interest rates created by your need for credit.

ABoriginal people payed taxes for services we could not use by law whilst you two wingers got the benefits of it and your families. As for Howard he wouldn't say sorry on behalf of whites yet demanded an apology from the japanese for there alleged crimes against white soldiers.

The fact that the Japs teach the same kind of sanatised version of historical propaganda to there children about their role in WW2 war as Howard and his propaganda stooge "Windscuttle" is teaching white kids of this generation ensuring that racism live on in the future.

If locking up Aboriginal people and taking away their rights as civilians is good for them because of conditions created by whites, then locking up white soldiers and starving them to death was good to protect asian people from slavery under white rule.

Lucifer

Why don't you spit it out instead of being snide in your racist stereotyping?

What have Indigenous Australians done to you that you feel the need to malign and slander them?

I actually know a number of Indigenous Australians who are doing very well in your terms (which incidentally is not the only measure of well-being or worth). I also know a number of (as you put it) "Greek, Italian, Chinese, Jewish, German" Australians who are anything but doctors and lawyers. The ABS keeps the score if you're genuinely interested in anything other than racial and ethnic stereotypes.

When you find significant differences in levels of socio-economic achievements among groups in Australia, it's useful to try to analyse the range of objective reasons for those differences. Assigning causes linked to abilities of races is the crudest form of analysis - and the least likely to offer a reasonable explanation of differences between groups.

I feel sorry for what happened though I would never apologise for something I didnt do!
Maybe i'll get an apology for being mobbed my whole childhood by groups of aboriginals at train stations.
Ive never stolen a thing from "anybody", black or white. I have aboriginal friends for #$% sake and they agree with me.
How much can an apology on someone elses behalf mean anyway ?
It certainly wouldnt mean anything to me, it would in fact feel rather, empty...

- Nathan

Just like Wilson Tucky said, and I quote; "well tomorrow will be a new day in the history of all Australians, no more chromming, no more molestation of incocent children", yea as if that's going to happen.
Wake up to yourselves people, these problems can't and won't be resolved by saying sorry. After all, if a resolution is to be sought to any type of problem both parties have to be committed to achieving an outcome.

Dearest Rehctub, I LOVE you!But I DON'T KNOW YOU! What experiences have formed your opinions or HAVE YOU BEEN brainwashed by something taught you.Today is Valentines Day, please accept my offering of a single RED ROSE to you as a fellow human being.I don't mind your opposition but I would never agree with you.I am not the same person I was in my youth.Hopefully , you will grow wiser, compassionate and tolerant and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL BE A MUCH HAPPIER PERSON.My advice is to make a special friend of ONE person of Indigenous extraction to see if you can change your mind.

Amazing how so very few of the comments posted to this article address the article itself! You're all going round and round like dogs chasing their tails. The point today is that the Government of Oz imputed liability for vast transgressions against hapless victims but the author of the article says it WON'T result in compensation. Waddyareckon to that?

Yes, and how would all YOU feel if you were the offsping of a "gin rooter" (a while male whose drunken hobby was raping aboriginal women)?

What is NOT said (in polite society) is that quite a few of these "half-castes" of the "stolen generation" were the product of such atrocities. The unspoken agenda was to get rid of this unwanted evidence of the white european invaders' cruelty and debauchery. They couldn't have the evidence of their crimes turning up at the wrong time could they?

The "stolen generation" was a very sad episode in our history. We needed to apologise and start to heal the pain.....

It was because of the rejection by the tribes of these unfortunate children, the products of misalliances between over sexed white males and aboriginal girls, that they were taken away. Let there be no arguments about that.

The stolen children belong to another group who were taken for entirely different reasons, most of which would be rejected by us today. They are the ones to whom an apology is due, although significantly enough, not by the Commonwealth as such, because the laws under which they were taken had been enacted by the states, to which claims of compensation should rightly be directed.

However, the apology given by the Prime Minister encompasses all these acts so it should be applauded as should the reply by the leader of the opposition, who seems to have somehow been mistaken for our ex Prime Minister by the miscreants who turned their backs on him without even listening to the substance of what he had to say.

David

Regarding letter from Lucifer

you said: "Why don't you spit it out instead of being snide in your racist stereotyping?"
"What have Indigenous Australians done to you that you feel the need to malign and slander them?"

Like i said before, I also have aboriginal friends, and i dont see how relating my personal experiences growing up; having my money, my push bike, my smokes, my wallet, etc. stolen from me, is slander.
Beating up a kid who is on his own, simply for being a
"white c u next tuesday" is gutless bullying. If anything is racist, that is racist.

i wasn't greatly impressed by rudd's speech but no doubt lawyers had been at it. for what it's worth, parliament has apologized. for many people, it's worth a lot.

better yet, rudd has co-opted nelson into acknowledging the need to do something together. getting the matter out of the 'point-scoring' mode may prove to be the most significant progress yet. if the result is education and jobs for 'old ozzies', i might even say something nice about a pollie. but let's see some action first.

i find without it hard to believe that removing someone from their parent without a legal process before a judge, establishing risk to the child, is not actionable. but the law here is vague and primitive.

Demos,
'I find it hard to believe that a child can be taken from its parents without a legal process before a judge'

Even today there are situations where a child is in imminent danger of being harmed and DOCS has to act to remove the child.

I know a lady who takes babies in as a foster mum for DOCS and she tells me some babies come to her in a shocking state. She has had some with cigarette burns, for example.

We most likely would be shocked if we saw some of the situations that DOCS encounters daily.

Hi rehtcub here.
To all those to whom I have hit a nerve all I would say to you is that I am not a racist and as a matter a fact I have an employee who is coloured and in fact very good at his job.
The point I am trying to get across is that the sorry cerimony should have been a reconcilliation between both parties, not just us saying sorry.
My grandad died as a result of WW1 injuries, should the government say sorry to me for a decision made at the time, in good faith, to send young men to war? No!
I would say sorry every day if my son was able to walk safely from the train station or leave his new bike at the shopping centre or not be expossed to chromming by these youg misfits.
Very few people are free from something that happened in thier past, it's just that some of them choose to hide behind it for ever.

The real stolen generation are the Australian taxpayers who are forced by Australian law to provide never-ending handouts to people who have rarely done an honest day's work in their lives & who are never likely to in the future. Just imagine how many hospitals & schools all that money would buy - past & future, how many Aboriginal lives would have been saved, how many would have received the tools to make it in mainstream society.

Of course the "throw money at them" strategy had to be tried so at least we can say - been there done that. How many other govts & nations around the world throw (& keep throwing) bucket-loads of money at their indigenous people, let alone give them a voice so they can continue to shout: “give us more, you racist scum!”.

The Aborigines must be the most favoured & fortunate indigenous group ever in history, & still they sob uncontrollably. I know how the Tutsis or Hutus or the Dutch of Spannish or anyone else would have dealt with the situation. Not even the Chinese of Nanking collectively carry on the way our indigenous folk do. I wonder how much attention the Japanese would give the "SG"?

The Aborignes got their apology - but of course that was never the real aim, & the Liberals knew it & every previous Labor govt knew it as well. This labor govt of course had no option but to apologise after Howard's refusal to led to a cacophony of wailing & shrieking by the left. Rudd could hardly come out & say...well actually I agree with Howard (& Keating & Hawke & Fraser & Whitlam et al – each a self-professed “conscience of the nation” ).

If taxpayers are forced to pay up for (yet again) the "SG", my bet is it won't end there. Place your bets folks...

Perhaps the following is apropos.

"AUSTRALIAN APOLOGY TO THE ABORIGINAL POPULATION

We apologise for giving you doctors and free medical care, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.

We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language, thus opening up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise.
We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.

We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.

We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.

We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace the animal skins you used before.

We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.

We apologise for paying off your vehicles when you fail to pay the instalments.

We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.

We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.

We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.

We apologise for giving you interest free loans.

We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value.

We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and handing them over to you so that you get all the money.

We apologise for allowing taxpayers money to be paid towards a daughters' wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter).

We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your 250,000 people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.

We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.

Continued

Continued.

"We apologise for you having to approach the aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures. For the trouble you will have identifying the "uncle toms" in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty.

We do apologise. We really do.

We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins.

We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the "outback", whenever you are ready."

Like I've said elsewhere in this forum, the Apology has really brought the racists out from under their rocks.

Ultimately, I suppose it's a good thing. In outing their odious antipathy to Indigenous Australians they demonstrate exactly why we had to have the Apology to the Stolen Generations. There are evidently still vocal elements of Australian society who are transparently - even proudly in some cases that I encounter - racist in their attitudes towards Aboriginal people.

The Apology is a good start, but as so many have said it won't mean much unless it is followed up with some real action. Housing, as Rudd has proposed, is a great start. I'm hopeful that we might see some fundamental improvements in Indigenous relations within Australian society under the new Federal government.

Mind you, they'd be hard-pressed to do a worse job than the Howard government did for more than a decade.

rehctub: "I would say to you is that I am not a racist and as a matter a fact I have an employee who is coloured and in fact very good at his job"

Yeah, right. Whatever you say.

Cripes.

VK3AUU; this racist filth has been circulating through email since the apology.

It arrived in my inbox yesterday from a 'friend' who knows full well how I would view it. On my objection I got a response that he did it to 'stir me up'.

It put an end to 30 years of friendship.

THIS IS RACIST GARBAGE AND I ASK GRAHAM YOUNG TO REMOVE THIS POST. YOU HAVE MADE YOUR VIEWS VERY CLEAR MR YOUNG, BUT I AM FULLY AWARE OF YOUR STANCE ON RACISM. AND THIS IS RACISM.

I await your decision. I've had it with this kind of race-porn; I will take it further if OLO though yourself thinks it is acceptable. Because if you DO, it will be an endorsement of racism.

Well said VK3AUU. And it’s a shame that when people say what they really think instead of trotting out the tired old PC line the anti-free speech brigade come out with that boring “you’re a racist” slur. Like you, rehctub, I’ll associate with any sensible-minded non-native english speaker & non-white (& disassociate from any non-sensible white person) & I do - going out with a black south African female from Durban tonight to meet up with an Egyptian Muslim for dinner - I couldn’t care less whether people believe it or not. Such a notion is too much for their limited brain power to cope with.

To me the person is way more important than the colour. But to the anti free-speech fascists, any criticism by a white westerner of a PRACTICE or BELIEF which involves large numbers of a non-white people means you’re automatically racist. If only these slur-mongers travelled the world & saw the racism & intolerance that really goes on – eg rife in India, Africa, Asia, Middle East – where the faintest shade of colour difference among people of the same colour or faintest difference in religious belief can mean you don’t associate with that person full stop, or even that you repress them.

The person of colour (& white) & non-western religious belief (& Christian) has never experienced a fairer system than in the west as it stands today - of that I am totally convinced, & we all may never experience it again. What we have achieved in the west in the modern era vis a vis human rights is fragile & is certainly no guarantee to last. Not only is the western system unprecedentedly fair, it bends over backwards to be fair and still the cries of “bend further, white racist, bend until you break” are heard.

Don’t believe me, slur-mongers – travel the world (not as a fly-by-night tourist) & see for yourself. You will be purged of your parochial experiences & thoughts forever.

Get it right KGB (how appropriate). Vacuous did not write that garbage he just peddled it.

Enjoy your very late dinner with the friends that you people always seem to produce to insulate yourself from any suggestion of racism.

Pathetic.

Dear Kevin

That was a moving speech. Now for the hard stuff.

Instead of $31 bn in tax cuts, use the money to set up a future fund to compensate indigenous people for their dispossession, for the stolen generations, and to improve Aboriginal health, education and housing. Recognise prior ownership through a treaty.

Future tax cuts could go into the fund.

Cut the $ 60 bn in middle class and business welfare that is presently in the tax system (called tax expenditures) to help further capitalise the fund. I'm sure big business would agree, as would all those well off superannuants and future superannuants.

Another thing. It was no accident that the day after the euphoria of the apology Labor began talking about wage restraint.

Labor's strategy is becoming clearer. It will use social policy as a cover for and distraction from attacks on living standards.

And finally to those worried about the racists, relax. To get bothered by these spawn of cockroaches is to be trapped in game. As the reaction to the apology shows, these posters are a small antiquated group with no political future who like a spoiled child left alone for a few minutes are crying for attention. They don't have the nous politically to organise now that their hero JWH is irrelevant, like them.

That means they are not a threat and their words have no resonance politically or physically. They are political refugees in their own land. Ah, sweet irony.

Well said VK3AUU, at last some real figures to back up what most hard working tax payers think.
I remember back in the early 80's when we earned about $7.00 per hour and one coloured guy used to say every Monday morning, "well guys, I've just paid my house paymant for the week". Sadly, this was after working just (1) hour!
Indiginous welfare and hand-outs is a joke, will always be a joke and now we have placed ourselves in a position of 'backing-down' we can look forward to a long life of continued, (un-accountable) hand outs!
Thank's Mr Rudd!
I hope those of you who voted this guy in are prepared for a bumpy ride as this, along with the KYOTO agreement is just the tip of the ice berg. Brace yourselves!
Perhaps when you start to loose your houses through high interest rates, while at the same time contributing to this debarcle you may change your view.

rehctub

Let me know the minute you get word that the sky's about to fall in will you? I heard about signing Kyoto, but I'm waiting for news about the disaster that followed its signing. Have I missed it? Or is it still coming?

Any chance we could get together a big class action in advance of this disaster - a kind of anticipatory class action, just in case there are any repercussions?

By the way, what government was in power when you went to school? On the evidence of your own writing and thinking, I reckon you could sue them and the education system for dereliction of duty.

Dear Frank Gol
As with most forums we are getting off track, but given the tone of your reply to my mention of the kyoto agreement, the real issue is one of keeping our economy driving and this will quite simply be un-achievable as we will certainly become anti-competetive given that the big three refuse to sign, they being the USA, China and India. That is my fear and one that I feel is shared by many.
You see I am a person who believes that we are all equal and should therefore be entitled to equal rights (and hand-outs) regardless of our colour, race or financial statis. We should also all be on a level playing field.
We have enjoyed an econnomy like nothing seen in my working life and I am warey of anything or anyone who puts that at risk.
And as for your dig at my education level, it is normally the better educated who target the less educated like myself and I can only assume that this is driven by the knoledge that people like me, who work hard with thier hands usually pay more tax in any one year than the brainy ones of yesteryear earn. You see, times have changed and it is the (un-educated) who get the big bucks now not the lawyers, doctors or accountants. Must suck given the years of studdy put in to a career that earns what amounts to sweet #$@*all in comparison.
Yea I just wish now that I did do my home work, but hey, lifes pretty good at the top!

It is a pity that whenever anyone has the temerity to suggest that aboriginals have done something wrong or need to lift their game that an immediate cry of racist goes up. One would expect, in a civilised discussion, that one might get some perhaps more logical, well thought out rebuttal, instead of this diatribe of name calling drivel. Come on now, lets hear something, no more of this incessant cry of racist, after all, as they used to say in my youth, "It takes one to know one."

Back in the sixties just before the referendum to include the aborigines in the general scheme of things, I was travelling on the old Ghan to Alice Springs in the company of a lady who was a missionary at the Lutheran mission at Ernabella. Understandably, she was quite keen on the fact that the natives were going to be able to access all the things to which we whites had access. I pointed out to her that this would also include access to alcohol, and I ventured the opinion that this would probably be to their detriment. My reason for expressing this opinion was guided by the observations of a friend who had worked in South Africa where the natives drank a home brew called Kaffa Beer. He said that when they were sober, they were good blokes to work with, but when they were drunk, they were downright dangerous. My friend and I came to the conclusion that the same thing would happen here. My lady companion assured me that such would not be the case, how wrong was she.

Continued

Now to put another story, just to reject my racist qualifications. A couple of years ago, I had occasion to attend the local Magistrates Court over several months. During that time, I listened to evidence in many cases of assault and crimes committed whilst driving a motor car, all brought about because of the consumption of excessive amounts of alcohol. These crimes were committed by white men. The scourge of excessive alcohol consumption penetrates all sections of society, black white and brindle, it knows no racial bounds, except that it does appear to have less effect on people of European descent.

So let us apologise to our aboriginal brothers for letting the do-gooders allow this scourge of alcohol to become available to them, and give encouragement to those who are working in native settlements to do something to discourage its consumption, by whatever means they are able to attend.

David

When the pro-compensation posters come up with an actual argument rather than the childish name-calling & innuendo, wake me up please. And then there's Passy....He can't wait for the compensation to follow.... but not if it comes from his pay packet & lowers his standard of living, thank you very much. The compensation is to come from OTHER groups. Ahhh, what a surprise. I wonder how typical he is of the pro-comp lobby? He's into sweet irony, wonder if he can see it there? And if everyone thought like Passy, no comp would be forthcoming at all. More irony.

OLO must surely be concerned that the level of discussion is being draffed down by rusted on racist and people who are simply not abreast to the complexities of the issues they engage in.

Its simply appalling and shameful.

Why would the sponsors of this forum want to continue having their logo's adorning its pages is beyond me.

"And finally to those worried about the racists, relax. To get bothered by these spawn of cockroaches is to be trapped in game. As the reaction to the apology shows, these posters are a small antiquated group with no political future who like a spoiled child left alone for a few minutes are crying for attention. They don't have the nous politically to organise now that their hero JWH is irrelevant, like them." (Quote: Passy)

This is balm for the soul! Thanks Passy!!

It's also true.

"Why would the sponsors of this forum want to continue having their logo's adorning its pages is beyond me."

To benefit from the brilliant insights & arguments offered in your posts. That's the only reason I can think of...

"if you disagree with me you are an immoral racist" - Who wouldn't be impressed with that line typed out over & over & over again?

But if OLO really is that bad, why are you guys attracted to it day in day out year after year? I mean it's not like this is the only one going. Finding your level? There is a certain comfort in being validated by like-minded online friends I guess. It remains to be seen whether the population at large thinks like you guys. I'm willing to bet you guys are well on the fringe. And you might rationalise that as a kind of top of the pile fringe. Whatever makes you happy.

KGB (more sweet irony!) says:

"And then there's Passy....He can't wait for the compensation to follow.... but not if it comes from his pay packet & lowers his standard of living, thank you very much. The compensation is to come from OTHER groups. Ahhh, what a surprise. I wonder how typical he is of the pro-comp lobby? He's into sweet irony, wonder if he can see it there? And if everyone thought like Passy, no comp would be forthcoming at all. More irony."

Actually KGB, I am going to benefit markedly from the tax cuts and superannuation changes. It is an accident of history I was born into a white middle income family, lived in a poorer middle class suburb, went to poor middle class schools, had a middle class unversity education, found a middle class job and progressed up the ranks. I have had all the sorts of advantages that we as a society systemically deny Aboriginal people.

I want my tax cuts and my massive superannuation benefits to go to people whom we have committed genocide against and arguably continue to commit genocide against (or at least we continue to benefit from the genocide). This group of people use about half the level of govenment services that other Australians do. The men die 17 years on average before the rest of the Australian population.

All of this can be changed. The US, Canada and New Zealand have done it. Unitl now we haven't had the will and I suspect Rudd is happy with the feel good resposne but keen not to go any further.

It's time to push him. It's time for a treaty.

If all of this makes me a do-gooder, then I wear the tag with pride.

Dear Passy
I don't think anyone disputes the differences between white Australians and the indiginous folk. Sure they have a shorter life expectincy than we do, sure they could enjoy a better standard of living than they get, however, THEY CHOOSE THEIR WAY OF LIFE. not us!
We provide ample funding for health!
We provide ample funding for housing!
We provide ample funding for education!
They choose not to work
They choose to burn their houses down rather than live in them
They choose not to send their children to be educated

They were even given an oppotunity to have a large part in the self management of thier own people (ADSIC) and the select few simply linned their pockets while their people remained in poverty and now we face the prospect of compensating them.
With regards to those who call us 'howard lovers' just be advised that big business is booming and is the driving force behind the living standards you all enjoy and expect today.
This boom did not happen by accident. We have very low unemployment which resluts in larger disposable incomes for workers while the howard goverment allowed business to opperate without all the interuptions from union interference.
Anything that may cause big bisiness to loose confidence in the way that our nation is run, and ultimately result in a major slow down of our economy will have dire concequences for the way we live our lives today. Please do not forget this. The life style that we enjoy today has not happened by accident. It has been a bi-product of our booming econnomy and can go by the wayside just as quickly as it arrived some 7 to 8 years ago!
Joe used to say "count the crains and you know how the econnomy is running" Well you rudd lovers, I ask you to count the crains now and then count them again in 2 years. We will see how we fare then hey!

Butcher (or rather their reverse) says in relation to our aboriginal brothers and sisters that:

We provide ample funding for health!
We provide ample funding for housing!
We provide ample funding for education!

Actually the level of Government funding and services to aborigines is about half that provided to non-aborigines. They in their poverty subsidise us.

Those whom butcher stereotypes don't choose genocide and dispossession or alcohol and lack of education. The question is how to overcome this incredible disadvantage and break out of the recurring cycle. Recognising prior ownership and sovereignty through a treaty, coupled with a fund for future generations and to right past wrongs is one step.

In any event most aborigines live in cities, have jobs and so forth.

"We provide ample funding for health!
We provide ample funding for housing!
We provide ample funding for education!
They choose not to work
THEY CHOOSE TO BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN RATHER THAN LIVE IN THEM.
They choose not to send their children to be educated" (Quote: Rectum).

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!!

_______________________________________

Tomorrow morning I shall be making formal moves to get that defamatory piece of nonsense on page 4 removed. Many of the figures quoted are fallacious. As such the statement IS defamatory. I just need to make one further legal check. I have accepted that it has not been removed from the forum only because it was a weekend.

Hey guys, rehctub here.
I just wish for once you people would refrain from making personal attacks.
Just remeber one very important fact in all of this fuss. We are dealing with less than 2% of the Australian population, that's less than 2 out of every 100 people. Take out the aboriginies that lead a normal life as a normal every day aussie and this figure becomes even less yet figures released back in late 2007 show that the health spending on aboriginals was $400 million for the year. In considering that there are some great Australians umoung these aboriginaries who work hard and raise thier families as model aussies, it just amplifies the fact that the budget for aboriginal walfare, health and education equates to a staggering amount per head when you take these model citizens out of the equation. Yet for some reason you people stand there and defend these people who quite simply won't help themselves.
WAKE UP TO YOUR SELVES, it's been going on for decades and will be going on for decades to come.
______________________________________________________________________

Dear Nilay – rehctub here.
I have to make an apology myself as I did not read your article in full prior to posting my resonse and for this I am sorry.
However, my concerns are not whether compensation is or is not going to be forth coming, it is more the fact that our courts will most likely be clogged by claim after claim and we as tax payers will be footing the bill yet again.

Look how many land rights claims were unsuccessful yet cost millions of tax payers dollars to defend.

I just fear that the flood gates have been opened as we may have in some way admitted liability for something that we had nothing to do with.
I do not agree with the actions of our forefathers however I do respect the fact that they made a decision on what they considered to be what was best at the time.

_________________________________________________________________

rehctub,

A few points:

1. If 2% of the population receive $400 million, then 100% should receive $200 billion - that's about what the national tax take is each year. So, Aboriginals are nominally receiving the same per head of population as the ordinary white person. So much for a "staggering amount per head".

2. The $400 million is only a nominal book figure. The reality is that a lot of it is paid to Government Departments etc, that create the impression they're doing something with it, but just hang on to it. The bottom line is that much of it is not delivered effectively, or just not at all.

3. A study was recently done showing, after everything was taken into account, that Aboriginals per head of population received only half the money of the average total population.

Ginx

How about just stopping your ridiculous efforts to prevent others from expressing their views?

Why can’t you just address the views that are put, instead of bagging those who post stuff that you don’t like? Cut the puerile hate-ridden name-calling. Why such incredible intolerance?

You accuse others of racism. Well I accuse you of some pretty heavy-handed and highly inappropriate attempts to restrict peoples’ fundamental right to freedom of speech.

I think that VK3AUU and others that you are trying to knock the stuffing out of have made some very valuable contributions to this discussion.

The truth is that some god-awful things have been perpetrated upon the Aboriginal people, along with some pretty profound efforts to help them. It’s a very mixed bag. Blame and commendation lie on both sides.

So Looders, what took you so long?.......:-

"More to the point, who is the most balanced and constructively contributive member of OLO?

That’d be someone who doesn’t spend all day every day on the damn thing and posts only good meaningful stuff.

Of course my vote would have to go to………………ahhhh ummm err…..Ludwig…. of course! (:>)

(or it would have done if he hadn’t post this piece of meaningless blurb! (:>())
Posted by Ludwig, Saturday, 17 November 2007 8:12:02 PM"

The font of all knowledge reduced to voting for himself!

If your comments had come from those whose views I value and respect on this forum, I might have taken more notice. But they come from you.. We have 'met' before haven't we?

What is it with you people? Do you have a textbook of quotes to justify your views?
I'm intolerant? ABSOLUTELY;- of the intolerant.

If you had a modicum of intelligence, you would not have referred to someones fundamental right of freedom of speech, and completely missed the fact that they did not exercise that, they printed up a Stormfont invective.
Or is THAT what you meant??.....the right to exercise SOMEONE ELSE'S freedom of speech.

As for this 'freedom of speech thing'; it's all in the interpretation isn't it?

I exercised MY right to 'freedom of speech'.

THIS is how YOU see it:

"puerile hate-ridden name calling" (quote required of PUERILE,HATE-RIDDEN name calling please).

"...knock the stuffing out off".

I object to White Supremacist crap, and I am trying to: 'restrict peoples fundamental right to freedom of speech'!!

Your little mate didn't even write it, he joined this forum to peddle it!

Do you remember Looders? Do you remember telling me to stick to the topic? Is this the best you can do on this thread? Just use it to take a shot at me on behalf of someone else? How pathetic

Ginxy

Thanks for reading my comments and giving them due consideration.

Have a nice day.

Onya Ludwig.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

David

I noted “Nilay B. Patel is a Melbourne-based lawyer and writer on constitutional law issues.” But his article to me appears to be anything then properly constitutionally based. As a “CONSTITUTIONALIST” AND Author of book in the INSPECTOR-RIKATI® series in regard of constitutional and other legal issues I consider it sad that Nilay B. Patel seems to me to have failed to present his argument on a properly researched manner.
He could for example read up the so far in 3-part published postings of mine ( being a copy of an e-mail forwarded to Kevin Rudd prior to the “sorry” statement at “http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=6981” regarding “Knowing when to say 'sorry'” to realise that claiming International treaties on the basis of being an “Aboriginal” is constitutionally defective.
Perhaps Canadian and Asian Aboriginals may also desire a slice of the money-cake?
.
International treaties, no matter how much I may value them, do not and cannot override constitutional provisions and the application of constitutional provisions.
.
It is regrettable but “racial discrimination” is the foundation of every state and territory and the federation to which Subsection 51(xxvi) is a clear example! A provision that all Colonies supported to be used for federation and therefore International treaties cannot override this.
.
Nilay B. Patel ought to have realised that the way to go about would have first of all to be to hold a referendum to omit Subsection 51(xxvi) of the Constitution. Without it we remain an underlining racial lot and entitled to discriminate! Personally I deplore racial discrimination but that does not alter what is constitutionally permissible!

RobP “The bottom line is that much of it is not delivered effectively, or just not at all.”

That sounds like a very inefficient process Rob.

My thoughts

Leave the money in the tax payers pocket and let the individual voters decide to spend it directly on the philanthropy of their choice.

That way people can exercise their own discretion to the merit or otherwise of aboriginal subsistence demands by contributing directly to the charity of their choice.

This will avoid the government, then bureaucrats and the “ineffective delivery” which you mention, whilst enabling ordinary Australians to do what they think is right and appropriate toward their neighbours.

Ginx

“Tomorrow morning I shall be making formal moves to get that defamatory piece of nonsense on page 4 removed.”

Well it is now Monday evening and I am pleased to see you have failed in enforcing your self-proclaimed censorship upon your fellow posters

I have long debated, often in opposition to Ludwig. However, I will support him against your mindless drivel.

I have no hesitation in observing he respects an opposing view and is not afraid to challenge it.

Some belligerent racists have proposed I be banned because they cannot deal with the opposition I present to their view.

You tend to justify my observaton that those who are first to demand censorship are usually the first to abuse others.

If you cannot deal with the confrontation of an opposing view, I suggest you go and live in a cave far away, high up in a mountain and without broadband.

A society which separates its people based on race is a racist society.
Expecting special consideration from government based on ethnicity is racist.

Demanding compensation for past wrongs inflicted on say ancestors is invalid since the claimant did not suffer the loss.

In claiming compensation for being removed from a dangerous domestic situation, I would expect the claimant needs to “prove” the intention which prompted the action and records may well cast a different perspective to the circumstances of removal, I don’t rate the chances of any compensation claims.

Let me give a quote from Mal Brough's budget speech as minister.

“The Australian Bureau of Statistics recently found that the Indigenous housing stock had increased by only 2 per cent since 2001 and in the Northern Territory there are 271 fewer houses than there were five years ago. This is despite well over $1 billion spent since 2001,”

Mr Brough said.“The PricewaterhouseCoopers review of CHIP found in some cases houses in remote communities were costing in excess of $600,000. And yet many of these houses are lasting only ten years."

The houses were not just falling down by themselves were they. If they were, we are sorry that were not built stronger.

David

CROUGE, the pseudo Australian! ("dearest Margaret Thatcher". Yeccchhh!!)

You don't seriously believe for a split nanosecond that I give a Gnu's gonad's for your opinion do you?

Of course you don't!!..Though I have to concede that you are THE expert on mindless drivel!

As to what I did today; you don't know what that was do you? DO YOU??

(I must confess my sins however. I forgot about that nice little symbol by each post which allows consideration for its deletion. It is the courteous thing to do, and frankly I forgot the thing was there. Silly me. OLO is the ONLY site of the three that has not deleted what creatures like you would see as Gospel).

However, for OLO, I'm not surprised.

What a lot of little girly men you are!! Vacuous endorses Looders, Crouge endorses Looders. Sweetykins!!

GINX
Instead of always setting out to ridicule other posters why not focuss your attention to the real facts and stay on task as being a reader of below average standards myself, I can tell you it become quite frustrating to read this type of stuff only to realise it is just another shot at someone or an attact on thier credabillity.

By all means put your case forward but use real data to back your claims as I can tell you that most Australians think the the aborigines get a preety good deal when it comes to the bennifits they receive in comparison to the whites. Nobody puts a drink or a smoke in thier hand, just money and they choose when, what or who to spend it on. It is just that simple.

Hey anyone heard from frank gol
Maybe I hit a nerve and he's attending tech colledge so he can up his living standards hey!

Rectum, I might just have managed a tiny awwwwwwww to the difficulty you have trying to read posts that you don't like ( no problem reading the ones that spout your kind of rubbish eh?),- then you went and ruined it with your next post referring to someone else needing an education..!

Let me make this very clear. I have been VERY,VERY restrained with people like you, who dish out your intolerant bile in spades, and then take the moral high ground when others stand up to that.

You are hypocrites of the first order.

FrankGol to butcher, Saturday, 16 February:
"By the way, what government was in power when you went to school? On the evidence of your own writing and thinking, I reckon you could sue them and the education system for dereliction of duty."

Butcher to Frank Gol Saturday, 16 February:
"And as for your dig at my education level, it is normally the better educated who target the less educated like myself and I can only assume that this is driven by the knoledge that people like me, who work hard with thier hands usually pay more tax in any one year than the brainy ones of yesteryear earn. You see, times have changed and it is the (un-educated) who get the big bucks now not the lawyers, doctors or accountants. Must suck given the years of studdy put in to a career that earns what amounts to sweet #$@*all in comparison."

Butcher, Tuesday, 19 February:
"Hey anyone heard from frank gol
Maybe I hit a nerve and he's attending tech colledge so he can up his living standards hey!"

Frank Gol, Tuesday, 19 February:
Some people are perfectly capable of making a fool of themselves without any help from me.

Passy –

When your financial benefits arrive, maybe you will hand them over to the Aboriginal people personally if the govt & courts rule against compo (the Rudd govt already has ruled it out). If so, kudos to you.

We are not “committing genocide on the Aborigines”. The phrase is pernicious nonsense. Proof?

We are not “continuing to benefit from any previous genocide", aka mistreatment of Aborigines in the past. In what ways are we benefiting from the mistreatment? You say they are subsidizing our current lifestyle? Creative spin. If I choose to go live in the outback & live an isolated existence, using your reasoning I would be subsidizing urban Aborigines? Utter nonsense.

Are we “continuing to benefit because we took their land”? It wasn’t their land to begin with. They were roaming pockets of an incredibly vast & sparsely populated island continent, doing nothing with it, never advancing in 40 000 years, comprised thousands of only at best very loosely-connected tribes speaking over 2000 different languages - and the land was going to be their’s forever more? Only in a make-believe world. Which is why the concept of a treaty is ridiculous. A treaty with who? Geograpahically distant tribes knew nothing about one another. The prime reason for a treaty is for more financial gain.

My ancestors did not choose to but were forced to come to Australia due to draconian penal laws in England. Due to blood sweat & tears they, like others, carved out a living for themselves in a barren land that other Europeans & Asians saw but didn’t want to touch with a barge-pole. The settlers made something of it & now the Aborigines want a free ride on top of that wealth. As I said before, they would have to be the most priveleged indigenous group of people on earth with the handouts relative to their productivity (as a group).

The acid test is whether the Aborigines would take life now, including the 59yr life expectancy, or pre-1788 lifestyle. And I wonder what their life expectancy was pre-1788. I’m guessing well below 59.

Just in case anyone is concerned that the previous government wasn't spending enough money on indigenous affairs, go to

http://www.facs.gov.au/internet/facsinternet.nsf/aboutfacs/budget/budget2007-07_indigenous.htm

David

Ginx 15 Feb “THIS IS RACIST GARBAGE AND I ASK GRAHAM YOUNG TO REMOVE THIS POST. YOU HAVE MADE YOUR VIEWS VERY CLEAR MR YOUNG, BUT I AM FULLY AWARE OF YOUR STANCE ON RACISM. AND THIS IS RACISM.

I await your decision. I've had it with this kind of race-porn; I will take it further if OLO though yourself thinks it is acceptable. Because if you DO, it will be an endorsement of racism.”

Ginx 17 Feb “Tomorrow morning I shall be making formal moves to get that defamatory piece of nonsense on page 4 removed.”

Ginx 18 Feb “object to White Supremacist crap, and I am trying to: 'restrict peoples fundamental right to freedom of speech'!!”

Ginx 18 Feb “As to what I did today; you don't know what that was do you? DO YOU??”

It is now 20 Feb.

For all the bluster and bombast by Ginx the item which he said on 17 Feb he would get removed, it is still there.

Ginx you might think you are entitled to 'restrict peoples fundamental right to freedom of speech'!!”

but I guess beyond the authority of your own bed, your despotic ranting does not count for much.

As for “You don't seriously believe for a split nanosecond that I give a Gnu's gonad's for your opinion do you?”

I doubt you have the cognitive ability to focus your limited comprehension for more than a spilt nanosecond.

As to the genitals of a wildebeest, you probably need to recruit those into conversation to cover for your own anatomical shortcomings, if the general quality of your posts is any guide.

I would observe, it is those with the smallest minds (and wedding tackle) who are first to demand their will over others in the typical way of either shouting them down, as you have tried here or censorship, as you have clearly tried and failed here.

The quality of your success can be summed up in two words

Ginx you are an “impotent loser”.

I do look forward to your next post.

Col Rouge,

Ginx may have asked Graham Young to remove the racist junk but his request was knocked back. I've found, myself, that Mr Young does not readily accept criticism of the quality of OLO.

What does it prove that the racist postings remain in place?

That Ginx was not sufficiently persuasive?

That Graham Young does not mind a bit of racist nonsense on his site?

That Mr Young is of the view that it's better to flush out the racist sewers than to let their putrid smell come out in other places?

That Mr Young is powerless to hold back the flood anyway?

That Mr Young needs the sheer quantity of contributions to OLO to be upheld for the sake of convincing OLO advertisers to continue their sponsorship?

Whatever hypothesis is correct (and I haven't exhausted all the possibilities), one thing remains clear:

No matter how triumphal you are that Ginx has not been able to have the racist garbage removed from OLO, it remains just that - racist garbage. Being published on OLO is no endorsement of quality.

That'll do nicely, thank-you FrankGol.

(Crouge; I still don't give a Gnu's Gonads for your opinion!
But I do appreciate that you give way more than that to mine;......anyone who goes into that attention to detail has actually taken notice. Good lad.)

Rehctub here
Well I must confess that I did in fact lower myself to take a shot at someone, for that I am sorry and I formely withdraw that comment. I don't usually do that.

On the other hand I have checked out the site for the 2007/08 indiginous budget which I must say does not surprise me. Particulaly the part where houses in remote areas cost $600K to biuld and last as little as 10 years. THEY DON'T ROT YOU KNOW, THEY ARE DESTROYED!

What the budget really highlights though is the fact that when you take away the 'model citizens' from within the indiginous comunity, and there are plenty of them, this budget spending is amplified in such that it is spent on a really small percentage of our population.

Now I am not a racist, nor do I support generside as some of you put it but unless you are completely unreasonable and one sided in your views, there is quite simply no way you can denie the real facts and that is that the allocation of funds for indiginous welfare is more than adiquate considering the small number or recipients. I say again, we don't give them booz or petrol to sniff, nor do we force them to live in poverty. They are given money and simply can't manage it.

So please do not keep saying that we are all on a 'level playing field here' and that the welfare is distributed evenly between white folk and our indiginous cousins as this is clearly fulse and misleading.

And lastly, to all of you who accuse me of being a 'racist' I urge that you don't take my appology as a back down, I am quite simply man enough to admit when I have done wrong and I am not afraid to admit it.

I invite you to do likewise!

Isn't it amazing, that those who make the most noise have the least amount to say.

We are still waiting for suggestions as to what should have happened to to those hapless infants who were rejected by their families/tribes because they had white fathers. What else might have happened to them if they had not been rescued by the authorities and placed in the care of the missions or other benevolent citizens who were prepared to give them a home?

Please, some answers.

David

Think they want to ignore your pertinent question, VK. By now the rules are pretty obvious. White = bad, non-white = good, black = great, Aboriginal = faultless & perfect. If they display any faults at all, then refer to rule 1, white = bad (it’s the white man, stupid). Any criticism of a PRACTICE or BELIEF regarding any non-white group is not only fallacious, but ipso facto ‘racist’. That’s just the rules.

So I’ll answer your question. They would have gone the way of all those other Aborigines whose short lives bring down their life expectancy to the 59 mark. Take them into care & then they hit 80. That’s racist, you can’t do that. You should pay compo for all the hurt of living to 80. Conundrum.

So from now on you leave them to their own devices, give all the handouts you referred to in your ‘apology to the Aborigines’ post, & when they take no responsibility for their own health & education (which is free, actually they get paid to use education) & go the way of the other unfortunates, then you are a racist because you didn’t wave a magic wand which would fix up every single problem they might have. In fact if you do anything at all which might upset them, then you are racist. Conundrum.

Because even if you don’t do anything to upset them, they may still experience upsets, as every human being does who ever lived. White man is again responsible for any upset they didn’t cause. Because even though they ‘might not have been directly racist’ (I love that because it leaves open the possibility that you were, like Passy’s “people whom we….ARGUABLY continue to commit genocide against”), they were ‘institutionally racist’. How can that be proved? It can’t, but it’s almost impossible to refute, like trying to prove a negative.

So you’re stuck. So what do you do? You do anything to avoid the label racist, which is the 2nd most dreaded label in the English language after ‘paedophile’. So you keep out of their way – don’t go near them, avoid them like the plague so you cannot possibly be associated with them in any way shape or form……but now you’re a racist.

If only they stuck the penal colony in Antarctica & another group settled Australia – the Japanese, Germans, Dutch, Portuguese, Spannish, Hutus, Tutsis, Arabs, Incas, Aztecs, Zulus, Maoris, Tongans, Samoans, Slavs, Mongols, Sioux, Papuans etc etc…..well let’s just say I think that would have solved the problem.

Gee, you are a cruel bastard, but I can't disagree with you.

David

I am an indigenous woman who is a part of the Stolen Generation.I was stolen frm my mother while she was asleep, I was 6yrs old, & I remember the events clearly. I was reunited with her 16yrs later at her funeral.After reading so many personal opinions, I ask the writers to close their eyes for just a moment,& if any of you have children, imagine the pain of awaking, or watching strangers taking your children away, imagine the heartbreak.Are people aware that the S.G is just 1 incident in our history? What about the massacre's,& no-one was accountable, what about the unpaid wages that the goverment withheld and built hospitals etc.How would you feel if you worked hard at your job, and at the end of the week you were given rations of flour & sugar, while your wages went elsewhere, but you had no say in the matter. Everyone is aware of the S.G but that is just the tip of the iceberg of what our people have been through. GENOCIDE, there is no words that can excuse the attempt of 'breeding' out a race,casteration of young aboriginal boys, so that they couldn't 'breed'..And today, the Goverment have a Victims of Crime commensation payable to anyone who has been a victim of crime, but no-one seems to acknowledge that.But everyone is up in arms and aggressive because the indigenous people may seek compensation? And nobody seems to acknowledge the physcological damage.Good on Rudd!

Oh FrankGol
I see you have come to defend the honour of the dishonourable, the manhood of the impotent and the intellect of the incompetent.

Well it is the 23 February and the “offending” post is still there.

Ginx’s demands

“Tomorrow morning I shall be making formal moves to get that defamatory piece of nonsense on page 4 removed.”

And

“object to White Supremacist crap, and I am trying to: 'restrict peoples fundamental right to freedom of speech'!!””

Have, rightly, failed

As to

“No matter how triumphal you are that Ginx has not been able to have the racist garbage removed from OLO, it remains just that, racist garbage. Being published on OLO is no endorsement of quality.”

Likewise, your malignant drivel pollutes the threads here, yet I do not complain about your right to post the inane.

I welcome you displaying how inept, incompetent and impotent the leftie really are.

I relish you displaying the asinine socialist view.

Please return and continue the good work.

VK3AUU “make the most noise have the least amount to say.”

The rattle of the empty mind is as loud as that of the empty bucket

KGB “In fact if you do anything at all which might upset them, then you are racist.”

The intellectualized and gentrified aboriginal, rainier, has promoted the view that some posters, including myself, should be banned from posting.

He displays not only his own racist views but a willingness to descend to censorship for his detractors.

History shows how the Spanish, German, Chinese, Indonesian or Japanese would have solved any “aboriginal” issue, had they colonized Australia.

As I have written on other threads

“A society which separates its people based on race is a racist society.
Expecting special consideration from government based on ethnicity is racist.”

Australia, pre the 1967 referendum on aboriginal rights was a significantly different place to that which has existed subsequent to the passing of that referendum.

The playing field was leveled,

Whatever is anticipated through “The politics of apology and the laws of compensation” only seeks to “tilt” what is level.

In reply to David and his comments of the 'hapless'babies that were taken away. A lot of people seem to be of the belief that the 'half caste' were shunned by their tribes.Another myth. I am not half caste yet I was stolen from my family. No-one seems to be touching on the truths, only what is presented by the media. How many people I have wondered, have sat with an idigenous person, and listened to their words, and heard their pain? David, you talk in refernce to the missions, may I tell you a sory of the mission. My Uncle, along with his siblings was placed in a mission.His job was to go & cut down trees, & to access the area, he had to walk along a tree that had fallen across the river. One day on returning, he dropped his axe into the water, & returned & told the missionaires of what had happened. He was sent back the next day to find the axe, but because he could not swim, he spent the day 'pencil' diving into the water. He returned without the axe, his punishment? He was locked in a morgue for a week........He was 13yrs old. This is one story that is told, imagine the countless others.I myself was placed in a foster home with a white family.My new mother, had physcological problems that had effect upon myself, so please don't insinuate it was for the good of our people that we were stolen and placed into new homes and we lived happily ever after.

Col Rouge

Your arguments can hardly be described as logical and evidence-based, nor your turn of phrase as cool and collected:

- 'malignant drivel pollutes'
- 'how inept, incompetent and impotent the leftie really are' (sic)
- 'asinine socialist view'
- 'rattle of the empty mind'
- 'intellectualized and gentrified aboriginal'.

So much mud to sling - nothing else to contribute? No argument? No ideas?

Well yes, this oxymoronic gem:

'History shows how the Spanish, German, Chinese, Indonesian or Japanese would have solved any “aboriginal” issue, had they colonized Australia.'

Excuse me, Col Rouge, how can 'history show' something that didn't happen? Does history also show how Australians would have been treated if Martians had invaded Earth? If fairies didn't know about teeth? If Howard had won the last election?

Who,now, will be game enough to rescue the poor little aboriginal children in dysfunctional communities? They will be left to rot. If any survive ,later they can sue the incumbent government for not "saving" them.
It is a bit unnerving, now that we once again have a Labor government, to see the old politically correct desire to suppress people's freedom of speech. It had never really died away but it is back with a filthy vengeance.
If the authority of OLO gives in and allows only one side of debate to be heard, it will be a very sad day.

"Australia, pre the 1967 referendum on aboriginal rights was a significantly different place to that which has existed subsequent to the passing of that referendum.

"The playing field was levelled",

Once again, the amateur utterings of someone who is not well read, knows nothing about doing primary research and lives in a bubble created by his own yearnings to be a modern day Biggles.

"Many popular notions associated with the 1967 Referendum belong in the category of myths. The referendum was not whole-heartedly supported by both sides of politics, did not end legal discrimination, did not confer the vote, equal wages and citizenship on indigenous Australians and did not permit for the first time Commonwealth government involvement in Aboriginal Affairs."

Poor old Col

Yes, I hope Col wiped his arse and washed his hands after that textual bowel movement.

1)

(Zilmia; two excellent posts. Don't let these morons upset you.)

Wicked wicked boy CJ...!

Now for the girly club and their newest recruit Ickyjo.

Vacuous: Please some answers??:

"It would appear that some of those on the left are having difficulty grasping the horrible truth that Australia is basically a white society and if you want to rise out of your pit, then you must attempt to conform to the norms of this society. You may even get help from a whitey,..........."

David
Posted by VACUOUS, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 5:08:04 PM

THAT is why I won't bother with you, or your clone KGB. (rehctub has shown the good grace to explain his views ((which I strongly disagree with))-in a reasonable manner. I don't include him in my comments. It appears he does not need to join your lynch mob

2)

Thatchers Boy;- it takes a while for you to get your nonsense into a barely coherent form and post, doesn't it?
Now I'll answer you. Because I'M ready to.

Monday was an interesting day. A squeal of brakes; a thump and then some really loud screaming. A women hit a neighbours pitbull that ran into the street'; it died instantly. She should have locked her car door. The owner dragged her by her hair, and still holding her that way was punching her in the face.
It WAS an accident. It was also very difficult to get that man to release his grip. The day was spent with witness statements and two further interviews. This fellow broke her jaw!

TB: just outlandish enough to be true eh? I have hinted at this in my previous post, but why should I tell you now? WEEELLLLL; just a little update.
A prominent barrister (Brownie's Honour)and another well-known organisation have been made (by me)- aware of these two racist posts.

Will the sky fall in? No. But has this site and the posts that were/are considered appropriate on this particular forum come to the notice of groups that take a very dim view of this filth.....OH YES!

OLO is now being observed. That won't stop. It won't stop, because if this kind of thing can go up on OLO on grounds of Freedom of Speech, than racism is approved; it has a green light here, and without question the situation will get worse. (I know two of the writers, and I shall be contacting them).

Any opposition to this pernicious ugly trend on OLO has been met with the threat of suspension!!

Freedom of Speech my rrrrr's

“Excuse me, Col Rouge, how can 'history show' something that didn't happen? Does history also show how Australians would have been treated if Martians had invaded Earth? If fairies didn't know about teeth? If Howard had won the last election?”

Correct in so far as history is no guarantee of the future. But semantics in the sense that history may in fact portend quite a lot. There are clear patterns of how certain groups were treated under different colonizing / marauding groups up until that time. Some groups have clearly been less tolerant than others. And the Martians, tooth fairies and elections are obvious false analogies.

“So much mud to sling - nothing else to contribute? No argument? No ideas?”

You could apply that phrase freely to more than a few of the pro-comp posters. I think Col’s are generally mild in comparison. Also, when he does get excitable, he tends to attack ideas rather than individual posters & his ad-hominems are more often than not in response to those giving it to him. This is in stark contrast to some of his opponents. Take a casual glance on this thread for example.

Zilmia, I have to agree that you indeed are one to whom an apology is due. However, my posts do not apply to you if you read them carefully, and I suspect that Ginx has attributed someone else's statements to me.

There seems to be a complete rejection of the notion that babies of mixed blood were rejected by their families when I know that was the case. I was living in the N.T. during some of that time, so I have some first hand knowledge of what was happening there. They are the ones for whom I still need answers. Not only were the babies rejected, but so were their mothers.

I am still waiting for an answer to my question.

Ginx et al, you will no doubt be delighted to hear that this is my final post on this matter. I will hereby be content to sit on the side and just observe.

Felicitations and salutations,

David

To David, please accept my apology, as I was incorrect in how I read your posting. This topic will always remain a strong debate, but at the end of the day, that's all it is.It is obvious that everyone needs to move on, not just my indigenous brothers & sister's, but the country as a whole.

Ginx “Thatchers Boy”

Thankyou, I am pleased to be associated with one of the greatest politicians of the 20 century.

“OLO is now being observed.”

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh scary stuff, maybe GY will be seen on TV, interviewed in the big brother house.

“Freedom of Speech, than racism is approved;”

Well cop this, duckie

“A society which separates its people based on race is a racist society.
Expecting special consideration from government based on ethnicity is racist.”

If you think me quoting another source which includes the statement

“We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.”

Then take me quoting it as if I had said it.

If you want my full details, first get a warrant. Graham Young has them on file somewhere, You and your fantasy “thought police” can get them from him and serve me in whatever court you like.

However, since I think you are simply a big bag of flatulent wind, I do not expect anything to happen soon..

Reading your puerile posts, I am inclined to give CJMorgan a rest, ignore him and focus solely upon you, as the current “potty-mouth-in-need-of-toilet-training”, worthy and seemingly panting for public denigration.

You must be a masochist.

As for “Freedom of Speech my rrrrr's”

Bring it all on but just remember, expect the worst of me in response.

KGB “he tends to attack ideas rather than individual posters & his ad-hominems are more often than not in response to those giving it to him.”

Thank you for your supportive observation.

You are correct, I respond “in kind” and thus do not attack those who disagree with me on a point of argument, provided they exercise decorum on addressing me.

However, when some scum-sucking troll, like Ginx, with the intellect of a dead chicken lets fly at me, I do take opportunity to indulge myself.

Childish, I know!
but it breaks up the day and I so enjoy a good bitch-slapping.

Zilmia, you claim to be of the SG because you were taken when your mother was asleep, but as a 6 year old would you have known if she was asleep because of overuse of alcohol or whatever?
.
If you think that the 1967 referendum gave equality then you obviously do not understand that the referendum was in fact reclassifying Aboriginals to be constitutionally “an inferior race”!
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As a “CONSTITUTIONALIST” I have canvassed this issue extensively already in my books and so no need to repeat the same.
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My previous postings have indicated that the murdering of Aboriginals and the taking of children from non-Aboriginal mothers cannot be any less then the harm caused to children that were forcibly removed.
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Kevin Rudd did not apologise on my behalf, as I had nothing to apologise for.
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If you witness a car accident and a person is injured, you may “feel” sorry for this person but you hardly would go over and say “sorry” where you had no participation in the accident, would you? Feeling sorry and saying sorry have different meanings.
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You cannot have it both ways, equality and then positive discrimination!
Section 521(xxvi) of the constitution is to discriminate against “inferior coloured races” and nothing to apologise about when the Aboriginals themselves supported this to be applied to themselves.
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One of my daughters is aunty to 5 Aboriginal children, and to me they are equal to others, but constitutionally they are not because Aboriginals were stupid enough to support the 1967 con-job referendum!
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To me the removal of any child, not just from Aboriginals, without just cause is terrible! But unless I participated in such deplorable conduct there is no apology in place for me to pursue and I cannot see how you could feel satisfaction by people basically turning this into some circus to make an apology where none is due.
.

Lady Magnet: "Childish, I know! "

You said it.

To me the removal of any child, not just from Aboriginals, without just cause is terrible! But unless I participated in such deplorable conduct there is no apology in place for me to pursue and I cannot see how you could feel satisfaction by people basically turning this into some circus to make an apology where none is due.
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Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 1:19:50 AM

I totally resent your opening statement with the words that "I claim to be of the SG". Not once did I say that I expected an apology from any individual, we have our apology from Rudd, & as I stated, it is time for our people & country as a whole to move on. As you would have noticed, this "circus" was well under way when I decided to participate. With all the forums that I have visited, not one contained a personal story of what a stolen generation survivor experienced, which is what my posting was all about, & I am sorry that you failed to see it as such. I do not know where the belief originated from that we expected every Australian to make a personal apology to each and every one of us. It was the goverment all those years ago that bought in the decision, & it was Rudd today, as leader of our country, that made the apology for it.Sorry is such a small word, but it has amazing healing powers

1)

Mr GHSH; such eloquent tolerant postings until you got to this matter, then suddenly we have a circus. Sad.
_______________________________

One day away, trying to juggle two plates and..........strewth! TB you don't half get your Y-fronts in a twist don't you?

Can't read, can't spell. But I do have to agree: Thatcher was indeed one of the grossest politicians of the 20th century.

I did pop in and read your latest vomitora, but other than sending a quick email, there was no time to post.
My email was:" Guess what? Granny is a scum-sucking troll"!!
A one word reply:"COOOLLLL!!".

I have arrived! I have street cred! I'm cool!!

Then I made a necessary journey in the cabin of a large truck with a hairy chested fellow with several rings in his ears. My wee jalopy hanging off a large hook thingy on the back. "How is your day"? says he.'" I am a scum-sucking troll" says I."WHO SAID THAT!" says he. "The blow fly" says I. "Well you tell the blow fly from me that he is a ....... ....,. ....-.... ...-..., and should .... himself up his ... .... .

"I will" says I.(DAMMIT!! I forgot to tell him about the dead chicken!).

Yes TB, I know you don't believe me, but you really made my day. I swear it. Even when the car packed up I was still laughing about it.

You got just about everything wrong.

1)Observed? Cretin!! Legal/Aboriginal; that is all I could do. It's out of my hands.
2)Warrant? What is a 'warrant' blow fly? Stop overdosing on your Inspector Lynley Mysteries. ( No Law and Order for Thatchers Boy!).
3) Thank-you for your brown nosing reference to Kjibby:-

2)

"I suspect that Ginx has attributed someone else's statements to me." (Quote: Kjibby.)

Is that a fact?

Would you like me to copy/paste SEVERAL of your posts on indigenous Australians, where you seem to require them to 'turn white' to be acceptable? It is such a running theme, that another poster mentioned it!

No jibby, I got the quote right. It is typical of your posts as I've said. BUTTT...; at least you have the decency to apologize to one indigenous Australian. A good start.

I think you lot should get a room and leave this debate to those who wish to debate the issues.

The fact is that if they are pleased with the prime minister of today saying sorry for the governments of yesteryears actions, then let it be. Just don't make this generation pay for past generations actions unless you see fit to compensate everyone who has been effected by such actions of their predecessors.

Remember they also sent inocent men,women and boys to wars to be slaughtered. Do we compensate these families? If so, where do we draw the line?

I for one agree with many of the posts, esspecially the one about whitnessing a traffic accident. Very well put and quite simply shows that one can be sorry to the victom for what has happened but is not personally sorry for something they had nothing to do with.

I am sure this was John Howards mindset and the mindset of millions of Australians.

Zilmia, You did state” I totally resent your opening statement with the words that "I claim to be of the SG".” Well lets check your past postings;

I am an indigenous woman who is a part of the Stolen Generation.I was stolen frm my mother while she was asleep, I was 6yrs old, & I remember the events clearly.
Posted by zilmia, Saturday, 23 February 2008 10:01:10 AM

I am not half caste yet I was stolen from my family.
Posted by zilmia, Saturday, 23 February 2008 10:47:12 AM

I totally resent your opening statement with the words that "I claim to be of the SG".
Posted by zilmia, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 8:55:17 AM

I was for a long time myself a single parent and my daughter Gabrielle, (herself now a mother of two children) who I cared for since she was one year old, even last week phoned me making known she always think back about the morals I was teaching her, and she is glad I had done so.
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Now, you claimed your mother was “asleep” when allegedly you were “stolen”. Now, something doesn’t sound right to me that your mother was asleep and someone could remove you. During the day I would not be asleep but look after the children and during the night when I was asleep the house was locked so no one could enter.
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Kevin Rudd had no position to apologise as Prime Minister, as the Government or for the Parliament, but that is another complicated story, other then to indicate he had no constitutional powers for this! He could apologise on his own behalf but that he could have done long ago!
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Fool those who rely upon hollow words!
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I feel sorry for Aboriginals as I do for others who suffer an injustice but I owe no apology for this. I feel sorry for the Iraqi’s who’s country our troops unconstitutionally invaded and murdered so many of them. Feeling sorry or having to say sorry are two different meanings. Don’t be fooled with words that have no meaning.

Zilmia, You did state” I totally resent your opening statement with the words that "I claim to be of the SG".” Well lets check your past postings;

I totally resent your opening statement with the words that "I claim to be of the SG".
Posted by zilmia, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 8:55:17 AM
Now, you claimed your mother was “asleep” when allegedly you were “stolen”. Now, something doesn’t sound right to me that your mother was asleep and someone could remove you. During the day I would not be asleep but look after the children and during the night when I was asleep the house was locked so no one could enter.

A personal reaction to your opening words, that I 'claimed' to be,when I stated that I WAS."Now something doesn't sound right to you?" Why are you even comparing yourself to my situation, this is not about what you would do! How about I ran away, and hid the bush for 16years & met up again with my mother at her funeral, would that be more soothing to your ears & leave you without any doubt? Thank goodness I have documentation that was released to me that shows how the real story was covered up with lies.
..."I feel sorry for Aboriginals as I do for others who suffer an injustice but I owe no apology for this"...Once again, nobody is asking you personally for an apology.
"..Feeling sorry or having to say sorry are two different meanings. Don’t be fooled with words that have no meaning"....
Feeling sorry for someone is an emotion, saying sorry is an action, so of course in your example, the two do have totally different meanings.
I can't bielieve that I am arguing about 1 word, but then again it seems to be a word that has offended a lot of people in our country, if it had no meaning, then this would not be possible

As an excuse for the policy of removing children from their families, Col Rouge writes: "Applying contemporary values to historic circumstances is a fraud". While he acknowledges that "removing children from their natural parents is ill-advised", he asserts that "the values of our forefathers, like the environment they lived in differed to that of today".

He then contradicts his own argument by noting that "we have moved on from burning witches and sacrificing virgins on the solstice". He doesn't explain why we 'moved on'.

We moved on because burning witches and sacrificing virgins was wrong - and those who countenanced those crimes were finally called to account after political campaigns. Those practices were wrong then, and are still wrong now. Just as child sexual abuse was wrong in the past, it is still wrong and will always be wrong. Can anyone imagine a day when 'circumstances' will change to allow child sexual abuse to become lawful and morally acceptable?

Can anyone imagine a day when Jews will again be taken to gas chambers for 'cleansing'? It is always wrong. We don't condone the holocaust because they didn't know any different in the 'olden days'. It wasn't a matter of 'historical circumstances'. It will always be evil.

Except where there is an evidence-based case that a child's health and safety are at risk, removing Aboriginal children (or any other children) from their families was wrong then, it is wrong now and will always be wrong.

We don't use so-called 'historical circumstances' to retrospectively excuse murder, rape or wife-bashing. Why should we use it for the inhumanity of forcefully removing children from their parents?

FrankGol, LET BE CLEAR ABOUT IT THAT I DO NOT SPEAK ON BEHALF OF Col Rouge! Having states this I take very much the view that what may have been done at a certain time, no matter how ill-conceived at the time, later by hindsight could have been done different.
For example, the 1967 con-job referendum that purported to give Aboriginals equal rights. It did no such thing. To the contrary it robbed Aboriginals of their equal rights they had been assured since federation. The problem is that people are conned to belief something and then further action its taken in the belief that this will resolve it, instead it makes it worse.
For example the white only voting rights was unconstitutional but no one then and since bothered to correct this and the ill-conceived 1967 referendum made it worse.
I have absolutely no issue with a person like “zilmia” who claims to be wrongly removed from her mother to get appropriate compensation if this is what a court were to decide. However, I do not have to say sorry for what occurred and neither had the Government any position to say “sorry” on my behalf.
So many people pursue a “sorry” to Aboriginals but forget that half-cast are not Aboriginal but Caucasian or whatever, and so who are you going to apologise to?
Children are removed from parents, regardless of their race, and far too-often are ending up worse then from the circumstances they have been removed from. We therefore do better to address that problem and leave it to the Courts to decide which person deserves a financial compensation, if any.
I do not perceive Col Rouge to imply to approve of what might, to our views, have been done wrongly in the past. What I understand is that he indicates that over time we learn what was done in certain circumstances may have by hindsight been wrong.
I understand he was not claiming that people perpetrating the wrongs didn’t know then what they were doing was wrong, as that was not the point he sought to make.

CJ Morgan;- as you will notice the matter of the post you refer to has been dealt with.I DID react to the viciousness of this creature with genuine hilarity, and DID email my my grandson.

But his latest offering froze the humour instantly and I was quite literally sick. It was the shock of seeing such disgusting and filthy language on this forum. I don't shock easily, but that was my reaction here.

I am sure you will understand that I shall ALSO request deletion of your post, because it quotes this vile stuff.

I can't believe this.I really can't believe it;-it has shut me down. I can run with the best of you, but this has made my flesh creep; I feel dirty.

In all conscience; it is my sincere and profound belief that the events of the last two weeks HAVE sent the message that anything goes. I am absolutely certain that that is why this happened.

Freedom of Speech has and MUST have boundaries; this is shown by this deletion and the closing of another thread.
I have said this all along, but I am certainly feeling no sense of triumph;-what a way to prove a point.

Thank-you for pointing out what I could not. I was unable to post earlier, because of the two post limit.

No worries Ginx. I've just recommended my own post for deletion :)

I have absolutely no issue with a person like “zilmia” who claims to be wrongly removed from her mother to get appropriate compensation if this is what a court were to decide.
Posted by Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka, Wednesday, 27 February 2008 1:23:05 PM

How dare you state that I 'CLAIM' to be of the Stolen Generation to get compensation! This would have to be the most rudest, insulting & vulgar thing that anyone could ever say to me! You are the only one who makes reference to any money that maybe gained. You were not beside me as I watched the telecast of the apology by Rudd. You did not see or hear me sobbing, you did not feel the negative energy leave me body as the words were spoken, you were not present when I rang me husband crying because I was finally letting go of all the anger & sadness that has been within me for 40years.You did not see me crying for my mother & the lost family I never got to know, & wishing that they were alive to be able to share that incredible moment. You did not see me at work later that day, with the biggest smile .You are the one that is looking at the dollar signs, not I. For how I felt then & now, no amount of money can ever equal that. I have been married for 23yrs,& have 3 beautiful children.The eldest son is a slaughterman , my second son is nearly at the completion of his apprenticeship as a boilermaker/fabricator & my daughter is at uni studying nursing. We own our home, & have no debts. My wonderful husband is a builder, & I am an artist, but working as a cook for something different to do for awhile.I have everything that I could possibly want, because my family is the most precious thing on this earth to me,as this is what I did not have when growing up.I can't bielieve what you have said!

Zilmia you seem to lack to be open minded. I did not at all claim you are seeking compensation! I merely stated that I would have no issue with a person like you seeking compensation and if a court were to award one. As such, I am not having an issue with the “sorry” wording as some fear that people deemed by the Courts entitled to compensation were to have my objection. It just appears to me you are so obsessed with your own views that you cannot read my writings as they are intended.
Again; “I have absolutely no issue with a person like “zilmia” who claims to be wrongly removed from her mother to get appropriate compensation if this is what a court were to decide.” As such I refer to “a person like” and as such not specifically concentrate on your person but applies it generally to a person like your self.
How on earth did you consider this saying “sorry” did anything at all if you seem to be so bitter that you construe a different meaning to what I stated?
You are entitled to have your views and so am I and twisting the meaning of what I stated as to purport it to be offensive isn’t going to resolve anything and neither does it for one iota advance any debate about the issues.
When I came into Australia in 1971, I never even knew Aboriginals resided in Australia and then I quickly learned by a drunk-Aboriginal (in Melbourne) getting into my car telling me that Aboriginals owed Australia and I had to drive him for free. Well, he didn’t get anywhere with me.
Perhaps Aboriginals should stop trying to blame everyone else for their problems and take some accountability for the mess they themselves also created. No “sorry” is going to resolve the self-destructive conduct by certain Aboriginals.
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I feel sorry for anyone who suffers an injustice, not just Aboriginals suffer this!
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There was once this Governor-of-Aboriginal-descent in South-Australia and he proved that equal opportunity exist if you just give the effort!

I had to send this on

"Am I a Racist?

Someone finally said it.

How many are actually paying attention to this?

There are Aboriginals,
Torres Strait Islanders,
Kiwis
Lebanese
Asians,
Arabs,
Boat People from all over the place., etc.
And then there are just Australians.
You pass me on the street and sneer in my Direction.
You Call Me
' Australian Dog',
'White boy',
'Cracker',
'Skippy',
'Whitey'
'Caveman'
And that's OK.
But when I call you, Black fellah, Kiwi,
Towel head,

You call Me a Racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you,
So why are the Housing Commission estates the most dangerous places to Live?
You have the Aboriginal Schools.
You have Sorry Day.
You have Yom Hashoah
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day. You would call us racists.
If we had White Culture Month, we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to'advance' OUR lives . We'd be racists.
If we had a University fund that only gave white Students
Scholarships..... You know we'd be racists.
'White colleges' ...THAT would be a racist college.
You can march for your race and rights.
If we marched for our race and rights, You would call us racists.
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange,
And you're not afraid to announce it.
But when we announce our white pride you call us racists.
You rob us, bash our kids,steal from us, and shoot at us.
But, when a white police officer shoots a Muslim gang member or beats up a Lebanese drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, You call him a racist.
I am proud. But, you call me a racist.
Why is it that only whites can be racists? "

There is nothing improper about this e-mail.
Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on

David

You really are a pathetic little limeball aren't you Vacuous?

You take any piece of racist tripe you can get you limp wristed little hands on to regenerate bad feeling. Keep it on the boil eh?

What a sad sack of hit you are, and all the equally sad little apologies for human beings who back you.

VK3AUU: "Am I a Racist?"

Yes, David. I'm afraid you are.

I readily admit to being a racist.
What is so wrong about that?
With all due respect, I would suggest that you, Ginx and all other people on this forum are also racists. If you are not, then you must suffer from an inferiority complex. Be honest and stand up for yourself.

David

Yes, David. I'm afraid you are.
CJMorgan,
he is stating a fact. Where on earth is there a single racist word in his post ? Either you don't know what a racist is or you are one. I happen to witness that disgusting affliction every day and yes, at times from white people as well.

Glod!!.! I'm really running out of patience here!

Are you two complete blithering idiots?? WELL?

I DO really do, understand what both of you say semantically, but you know EXACTLY what I'm calling racist. YOU KNOW, you little weasels!

The tone and content IS designed to stir; it IS addressed to the non-white with complete disdain; and it WAS put here by an embittered little prat who is determined to be racially provocative, whilst blithely stating that we are ALL racists. More bleedin' semantics.

For Petes sake!, don't be such spineless cowards, and resort to hair splitting. Strewth! people like you must live on a diet of hate!

Those who lumped David display their own racism. He is merely stating a point and didn’t encourage racism for so far I could see. If this comparison makes a person to be a racist then you lot don’t understand what racism is about.
.
My wife’s late husband was a racist and ended up in a nursing home being cared for by “coloured people”. Now to him that was the worst kind of punishment for him!
.
My wife is a racist, and admit this, and even goes on about the fact that one of my daughters (not her daughter) married a person from India, but to me all that is relevant that my daughter is happy in her marriage.
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My wife makes clear that Australia is being swamped by “coloured persons” and it is a problem to her, but to me it makes not one of iota difference.
.
I like the article that David wrote and intent to republish it because it is the message he gave within it that brings out the racism by the very people who so often themselves claim there is racism but then practice it themselves.
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David is entitled to make his point of views known as is any other person who post their views, and nothing in his post could be seen to endorse or incite racism. All the man did was to expose how those who so often complain about racism would themselves be racist if a “white” person did no more but what they did.
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Do not portray exposure of the truth as being racism. Evaluate his writing for what it stands for and not what you desire to make out of it.
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It is indeed sad that people who are small minded cannot even tolerate to have a person expressing his views without being called a racist, regardless if he admit to being so, as it is those who cast their criticism are more likely to be racist then those who are the subject of their criticism.
.

The tone and content IS designed to stir; it IS addressed to the non-white with complete disdain.
Ginx,
I don't think you know what racism is. let me enlighten you. A racist is a person who discriminates against another purely on the basis of race. That is a sad & stupid attitude.
You're confusing attitude & mannerism with racism. If I, a white, accuse another white person of being a dimwit or a crook then I am expressing my perception of that person. If I did that to a non white person I'd get accused of being racist. That's what you do & you're the one who's tone is designed to stir. To state one's discontent about another person's attitude is reflecting on their BEHAVIOUR, not their race. I have never learnt english in a school , have you ? If you did then may I suggest to go & do another term in English so you can learn the difference & meaning between attitude & race.
ps. the practice of deliberate & opportunistic misinterpretation is one of the most hypocritical indeed & one of the lowest form of human behaviour.

Trust me Indy, I know a lot more about racism than you do. You do not change in your bigoted approach and your little mate Gareth Snorkel doesn't either.

You Gareth are a sad little man. Your patronizing attitude to me stems DIRECTLY from the disappointment I expressed that you could make such eloquent posts and thoughtful posts, yet when it comes to this subject, you are totally one-eyed.

Just be honest about your attitudes.

I oppose .hit stirring. I have expressed that. You then twist that around and accuse me of racism! That's how desperate you people are.

That is "the pot calling the kettle Black" if ever I have heard it.

Incidentally Indy, it wasn't particularly non-whites I was trying to stir (apparently successfully), but anyone else who wished to rise to the bait. They come in every time. Just shows you what makes the world go round.

David

Trust me Indy, I know a lot more about racism than you do.
Ginx,
that's obvious. Judging by your posts it would be a safe bet to describe you as an expert racist.
What is it that makes you miss the point in racism vs attitude. I never have & never will make derogatory remarks about someone's race. No-one & I mean no-one has any right to denounce someone on the basis of race. I have said it before & always will say that racism is one of the most disgusting & stupid afflictions.
Ginx, I'll try again to get through to you although my chances are getting slimmer with every post.
To make a STATEMENT based on FACT is NOT RACISM. Unacceptable manner is not unique to any particular race of people. I think yours & my dilemma is that;
1; I believe that no-one is a racist because they remark on a misdeed or hypocritical remark by someone not of their own racial background.
2; You appear to believe that criticizing someone from a different racial background to one's own for a misdeed or hypocritical remark is racism.
Ginx, I don't know what your background is & quite honestly it really doesn't matter but you MUST learn about those vital differences. The core of this debate is that whenever someone makes a factual remarks on indigenous issues you holler out racism. It really isn't you know.
You accused me on living on a diet of hate. You couldn't be more off the mark if you tried. I could assume but I don't think that you live on a diet of indoctrinated ignorance. You're just one of those who are allergic to reality & refuses to take medicine & opts for baseless blaming instead. Just another unfortunate fact.

At least David VK3AUU admits he's a racist troll - in fact he seems quite proud of it. Unfortunately, individual is one of many racists who are in denial.

We truly have a long way to go, don't we?

Did you think that condescending little dirge would convince me Indy?

Naive little twerp!

QUOTE
Naive little twerp!
Posted by Ginx, Saturday, 8 March 2008 10:39:47 AM
END QUOTE
.
To me this shows the hallmarks of a person unable to appropriately communicate in the English language and then resort to gutter language not at all reflecting a persons competence in debating an issue.
.
We may not agree with the views expressed by others, and indeed that is something of being part of a human race, but to resort to gutter language should not be appreciated.
.
QUOTE
You accused me on living on a diet of hate. You couldn't be more off the mark if you tried. I could assume but I don't think that you live on a diet of indoctrinated ignorance. You're just one of those who are allergic to reality & refuses to take medicine & opts for baseless blaming instead. Just another unfortunate fact.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 8 March 2008 7:16:01 AM
END QUOTE
.
Now this is the kind of artistic writing that I have to smile about, irrespective if I agree or disagree with the writer.
.
Those who are posting statements to try to make other look inferior of themselves are fooling themselves. A fair minded person would be well aware who is the ill informed and generally using derogative language will assist in the making of such an evaluation. Hence, if one seeks to be desiring to display to be more competent on a certain subject then prove this by appropriate comments rather then any form of gutter language, which after all do not serve the issues Nitay Patel wrote about and we are posting about.
.

CJMorgan & Ginx,
Those with no retort resort to ridicule. Can't you please at least try & prove me wrong ?
What are my racist comments ? Either you two or I don't know what racism is. I live & work with indigenous people & I just showed our posts to a close indigenous friend. I won't disclose his remarks to save you some dignity.
Just answer this question & let that be the end of this debate. Is being indigenous an automatic exoneration for doing wrong ? Are only white people wrong ? Please explain.

Gareth Snorkel is a lot smoother than you in his approach Indy, but you are both still the same.

I have already explained my reasoning to you both, if you don't have the intellectual capacity to process that, it is not my problem.

The bottom line is that we disagree; we have different views.

Do try to live with that;.....both you and your treacle-tongued little mate.