what a hot topic!

With the advent of the pill, bra burning and the feminazi brigade launching thier jihad on the male gender is not any wonder kids run the streets with no one to care?

After all the crap men have to put up with and have to consider Child support ETC why should we give a toss about women?

Lets face it multi culti femi crap BS created just about every ill the Western World lives with today.

Ladies you did it to yourselves, feminism was the greatest failure for humankind after multiculturalism.

Still ISLAM does not look like bowing down to the girlies anytime soon.

Would like to see the feminazis attack the Koran about the value of a female witness to that of a male witness.. OH whats that, dont have the balls.

All the bombast about “feminazis” is an attempt to take away from women their right to own their struggle for equality. Maybe because feminism is about equality for women, such a male-centric view of the world as is demonstrated on these pages, men feel left out of the equation. It’s not all about you boys.

There is so much hatred here – no wonder women need to continue the struggle for equality. The vitriol expressed by the likes of Scotty – does he want a return to the time when women were completely dependent on men for their survival? Is that what men really want? Helpless, dependent, uneducated, submissive women?

Why is it always assumed that when women struggle for the same rights that men have had for millennia that women must, therefore, hate men?

Far from it, I adore many men, although I wouldn’t want to spend any length of time with some of the posters to this forum – and maybe that’s the problem; these men blame their failure with women in their own lives on feminism. Rather than having a good hard look at themselves.

The author (male) writes that feminism has neglected motherhood, completely ignoring the fact that most feminists are mothers as well.

More women still have babies than not. And most women believe that their place is along aside men – not 10 paces behind.

It is a shame that the word “feminist” has been poisoned to the level where women I know will preface a comment like “I’m not a feminist but…” before launching into an example of discrimination against them. Clearly misogyny is alive and well if this forum is anything to go by and clearly feminism still has a long way to go, if whenever we speak up we are assumed to be attacking all men. We’re not and most men can see that there are benefits for them if their partners aren’t completely dependent on them as in the past.

To the feminist haters here - do you want a return to the past when women were helpless and dependent?

Fractelle, a society in which independence is held to be the highest good can't work. Logically, if you want to maintain your independence you would select not to marry and not to have children - whether you are male or female.

Why would a man seeking independence marry or have children? It can only reduce his autonomy to do as he likes and increase his responsibilities. Similarly, if a young woman prizes her independence above all else, she will follow the single girl lifestyle of careers, travel, shopping and casual relationships.

Feminism gets it wrong for several reasons. First, it does promote autonomy as the highest good, and so it encourages women to delay family formation and motherhood - leaving many women to experience a deep grief later on when they have to come to terms with being alone and/or childless. Second, feminism assumes that men are a privileged class who have always had an autonomy denied to women. Feminists don't understand the sacrifice of autonomy men make when they commit to family life.

In a viable society, men and women give up a measure of independence within the family in order to serve higher ends of fatherhood and motherhood.

Fractelle, in the 1950s and 60s only 10% of women ended up without children. In our feminist era that has risen to 25% (much higher for uni educated women). There are countless more who had fewer children than they hoped for. Feminists have to accept responsibility for this.

An example: as recently as 2002 the American Society for Reproductive Medicine attempted to alert women to the dangers of delaying motherhood through a poster campaign. The National Organization of Women, a feminist group, attacked the campaign. They objected to posters with the message "Advancing age decreases your ability to have children". According to NOW the posters sent a negative message to women who might want to delay or skip childbearing in favor of their career pursuits. The campaign was withdrawn.

So even the simplest of warnings to women about delaying family formation was too much for the leading US feminist group.

Passy “In some instances (such as Paris in May 68 or Czechoslovakia in the same year) capitalism itself was being threatened.”

The Paris forment was hardly a threat to capitalism, especially when the outcome resultED in a stronger Gaullist government, not a weaker one.

As for Czechoslovakia in the same year, the thrust of the uprising was against the evil empire of USSR, not capitalism.

I think you are getting a little carried away with rewriting history to suit your own twisted delusions.

“They divide the working class and thus help maintain the rule of capital.”

Yawn, the bleating of those who believe in their own impotence.

The capitalist system allows for all to rise to whatever heights their ability can project them

It is socialism which demands no one is allowed to aspire beyond that limit dictated by the state.

Mark Richardson “In a viable society, men and women give up a measure of independence within the family in order to serve higher ends of fatherhood and motherhood.”

You are probably right Mark.

For myself, I would seek to see a society where men and women are equal, neither gender protected or hindered by politically motivated affirmative action agendas and everyone of them, male and female, respected for the freedom to make decisions as individuals; in the belief that any society can only reflect the healthy or otherwise attitudes of the individuals who compose it.

At least I have had the privilege to practice that and pass it on to my children (both girls, one of whom is (to sterotype) more typical a “home maker” personality and the other who is far more career orientated, diversity, don’t ya just love it).

Gosh some of the responses are pretty hate filled on this forum.

Despite the failures of feminism I can't see how replacing it with misogyny will help. One could argue that it was men that created feminism due to the inferior way in which women were treated - happy people don't revolt so to speak.

So instead of turning it into a gender war, why not some solutions to increase the quality of life for all.

The first suggestion might be to ensure economic security for families who wish to raise their own children at home. The more we are pushed out of the home to work due to financial burdens means that choice is taken away from us all.

Men have been disadvantaged with child support that is true although the new Family Laws and Family Relationship Centres should improve access to children for men. Some women are not paid any child support nor do they receive any help from their partners and some have been abused.

The right treatment for the right situation is the goal.

Gosh some of the responses are pretty hate filled on this forum.

So instead of turning it into a gender war,
pelican, Sunday, 3 February 2008 6:44:15 PM

"Under the leadership of the Pankhursts, the movement had taken on a broader and more radical scope -- the call for equality had taken on the look, the feel, and the design of a “sex war”" "White Feather" Feminism:

TOO Late, Pelican it was made a 'gender war' long before any of us were born.

I find it interesting in that you label this forum as "hate filled" when much worse is spoken and written about men in all forms of the media.

All I can say is thank god for the internet or else we would be only reading what the media wanted us to read or hear about.

Fractelle, women were never helpless, especially when I read about the suffragettes.