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Climate change, is democracy enough? : Comments
By David Shearman, published 17/1/2008Liberal democracy is sweet and addictive: but unbridled individual liberty overwhelms many of the collective needs of citizens and the environment.
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Posted by Col Rouge, Friday, 1 February 2008 11:56:34 AM
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I've noted that with the exception of a few useless, ill-willed egocentric posters, authors of a sceptical nature are no longer writing articles on OLO refuting the impact of anthropogenic CO2.
In addition, when one performs research, one finds there is a groundswell of citizens worldwide, objecting to the desecration of this planet's eco systems. As previously reported, California, representing 17 states in America and supported by "tens of millions" of citizens are taking the EPA to court seeking environmental justice to reduce greenhouse gases from the automobile industry - an industry, coupled with the Bush administration, vigorously protesting, it appears. I'm not au fait with what our leaders in Australia are doing (if anything) to mitigate CO2 pollution from the motor vehicle industry, however, motor vehicles in Australia continue to emit the largest source of carbon monoxide (2,200,000,000 kgs/pa - 05/06), the largest source of the hazardous benzene and a high second to electricity for oxides of nitrogen and second only to mining for particulate matter. http://www.npi.gov.au/cgi-bin/npireport.pl?proc=substance;instance=public;year=2006;substance=67;loc_type=national http://www.npi.gov.au/cgi-bin/npireport.pl?proc=substance;instance=public;year=2006;substance=19;loc_type=national#Summary Carbon based chemicals, when burnt, convert to CO2. Whilst many discerning citizens endeavour to reduce their own carbon footprints, I remain convinced that our governments' endeavours are insufficient. Reform within the governments' environmental agencies is well overdue and despite the spin from governments and senior personnel, pollution is rapidly increasing. Are we to continue basking in our comfort zones or are there citizens out there, more knowledgeable on the political processes than I, who wll come forth and offer sound solutions for this nation's ecological survival? Solutions are available. The threat of totalitarianism in seeking a fair go for this country and beyond, is silly. Democracies have functioned perfectly well from its citizens adhering to legislated edicts by governments - edicts which are legislated for the benefit of all its people - not just those seeking capital for themselves. Perhaps citizens should encourage and support a national formation of our country's environmental scientists, health professionals and community stakeholders - a coming together of like-minded ethical people who will collectively raise their concerns over our governments' continuing apathy on environmental matters? Posted by dickie, Saturday, 2 February 2008 12:12:31 PM
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Actually Col, merchants of environmental gloom such as Dickie,
can also provide new business opportunities for some of us. Dickie pointed out that evil dioxins are released when people are cremated, so we can't allow that. City cemetaries are overcrowded anyway, so we need another solution. Perhaps its time that people can choose to be buried out in nature, with a tree of their choice planted above them, as their memory to the world, rather then a gravestone. There are 5 million square metres here, which means lots of potential very nice burial sites and no groundwater issues. At a reasonable say 5000$ a pop, this sounds to me like it could be a win-win situation and helping preserve the environment in the process! Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 2 February 2008 2:30:42 PM
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"There are 5 million square metres here, which means lots
of potential very nice burial sites and no groundwater issues." No groundwater issues? How quaint Yabby and you a farmer of cloven hooved livestock and all! But you continue to high-jack threads of important environmental concerns where you also continue to reveal your ignorance on these matters. Mind you, I thoroughly enjoy a good dust up with Australia's neanderthal hill-billies. Unfortunately for you though, neanderthal hill-billies are few and far between these days! Posted by dickie, Saturday, 2 February 2008 3:12:05 PM
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Dickie “edicts which are legislated for the benefit of all its people - not just those seeking capital for themselves.”
Actually dickie, you are demanding more consideration for your view than you represent, which is greedy, selfish and what you are complaining about as the action of the “capitalists”. You are no different to someone who expects to have a free ride, at the expense of those whose jobs and livelihoods rely on doing what is presently legal and accepted by the democratic majority. I see you conform to the profile of most despots, prepared to give away the democratic freedoms of everyone, provided you get to make the decisions for the rest of us. Very Stalinistic. Very typical of the other ratbags who climb buildings and deface them to make their message (eg Sydney Opera House) or put nails into trees to maim lumberjacks, as they go about their legal activity. If you don’t like the legislation, stand for elections and work your way up to where you can influence it, otherwise, you are just a whining joke. Yabby “merchants of environmental gloom such as Dickie, can also provide new business opportunities for some of us.” I am pondering developing some enviro software which will help compilate small business and household carbon footprints. I am also sure the growth market in carbon futures trading is a rich and profitable source for anyone with a speculative flair. Yabby “we can't allow that. City cemetaries are overcrowded anyway, so we need another solution.” With dickie, I would bury him (might even wait 'til he is dead) with his butt stuck out the ground, so other “environmental warriors” can use his recycled cleft as a bicycle rack. Posted by Col Rouge, Saturday, 2 February 2008 3:37:05 PM
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Dickie, you worry me, you really do. Here I go, offering a
market based, environmentaly friendly solution to your concerns about the evils of cremating corpses and the dioxins released. You are still not happy! Never mind, the business plan is sound enough so that other greenies might jump at it. *with his butt stuck out the ground, so other “environmental warriors” can use his recycled cleft as a bicycle rack.* ROFL Col:) Actually I did some calculations. At 10 m2 per corpse, that means room on my place for half a million, so would certainly take the pressure off Perth's cremation industry and the evil toxins released by them. Not only that, but it will also mean half a million trees planted. Its a whole new green industry and should work wonders for my super fund at 5000$ a pop. With that kind of money around, I could easily afford to create a bronze sculpture of that butt crack,so as to remind me of how I came up with such a great business plan :) Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 3 February 2008 12:55:51 PM
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Corporations, although they are separate legal entities, are operated by people.
Some people commit crimes in their own name. We can presume they commit crimes in the name of corporations too.
People who commit crimes are subject to the law, as it is policed. That applies equally to those who act in the name of corporations.
Criminal legal penalties do attend to directors and officers of companies which break the law.
Richard Pratt, Visiboard , pricefixing.
The CEO of HIH, recently released from prison.
Steve Vizard, debarred from holding a directorship for insider trading.
Individual employees of QANTAS, named by US FTC for price fixing.
The matter remains “policing the law”, which is the duty of the civil servants of the various state environment inspectorates who are supposed to be managed by the state governments.
Address your complaints to the state government before you start to regale us with your pet peeves.
Re “nation is ignoring the dire situation of its environment and at its peril.”
That is an individual opinion (not universally held) and no basis for suggesting the democratic processes of government be curtailed.
As for “Estimates of industrial stack emissions in this country, I believe, are drastically underestimated.”
You have a choice, prove it or take it to the environmental protection agency in the state where such abuses are supposedly occurring.
Until you do, you are, as I said before simply “blowing it out your ass”
“Australian governments "regulate" by issuing guidelines. Guidelines are unenforceable.”
Australian governments have the authority to enact legislation to turn any guideline into statute, which can then be policed and enforced by the government agencies charged with such duties.
“regard for the ecological consequences”
Get enough people to agree with you and you can lobby for change. Until then you are one opinion among the rest of us, with no greater right to be heard than me.
As for “inane sophistry”
Phone someone who cares