“Speculative assumption”?

“Global weather and temperature science lacks the historic analysis and experience to be able to provide a "true and fair view"?

Col, what is your profession – it certainly is not science or engineering. Col, you are being too verbose.

So you want 100% certainty before you would act? What about 90 – 95%, is that speculative enough? Ever heard of risk assessment?

There is an abundance of evidence now from the historical record, couple that with the latest in science, engineering, satellite and computer modelling … well, you get the drift.

Oh yeah, all scientists and most plebs now understand there is a difference between weather and climate.

Signatories to the UNFCCC and IPCC realise there is a big job ahead. Politicians recognise there is a problem, so do business and religious groups and a lot of people that rely on the preceding to lead them.

I can't help wondering if skeptics aren't missing the point. look at all recent photographs of all large cities and note the heavy clouds of poison gas emitted by fossil fuels. Look at the defoliated forests of Europe caused by acid rain. Look at the destructive floods caused by deforestation. Take note of huge species extinctions. Remember that every day more humans are born than the total of every other primate remaining on the planet... Is this what humans should be doing to life on earth? Will we all be happy and stop fighting when there is no where on earth where the air is fit to breathe, when no water is drinkable, when no soil is free from poison?
At least by cutting back on fossil-fuels we are beginning to turn away from the notion of endless growth and pollution, and are beginning to realise that humanity is like a plague - a cancer destroying almost all life.
Nit-picking is stupid. Use what influence you have to draw attention to the stupidity of endless expansion, rather than trying to score points.

And Col,

You state:

"That we have politicians who wish to hog-tie our national economy to "a speculative assumption with unknown causes and unknown outcomes" is an act of political lunacy."

Isn't this speculation what most of the worlds financial markets are based on? Not wanting to be provocative, I really don't know the percentages, but I know a stack of money is "bet" by speculative traders whose knowledge of their system would be similar to that of these scientists, without much opposition from anyone.

If we act to reduce omissions it's a win/win. I'm not that concerned with semantics in this case.

Its all about ENTROPY and PLUMES

Firstly, I will point out that “entropy and plumes” (entropy differentials and Ricci flows) is how Grigori Perelman proved the poincare conjecture. He was awarded the millennium prize for this. The ramifications of Perelman’s work for studying DYNAMICS of COMPLEX systems are well documented:

“Indeed a triumph of nineteenth century mathematics was the proof of the uniformisation theorem, the analogous topological classification of smooth 2-manifolds, where Hamilton showed that the Ricci flow does evolve a negative curved 2-manifold into a 2D multi holed torus which is locally isometric to the hyperbolic plane. This topic is closely related to important topics in analysis, number theory, DYNAMIC systems, mathematical physics, climate science, economic theory and cosmology.”

I have APPLIED Perelman’s work (Ricci flows with surgeries) to global climate and global economic situations.

Human CO2 emissions are but a small part of the ENTROPY vector in either homologous manifold. $Currency$ movements and popu;lation increases on the 3-S global economic manifold more clearly represent the Entropy vector in both. There are other indicator parameters, none of which relate to CO2 levels by itself.

Hamilton showed how the dynamic solutions and thus the predictiveness of this Entropy/Plumes modelling evolve. A good, & recent sample solution set is hurricanes on the Sea Surface manifold. The problem will arise not so much in cliamte but in human lemming-like conflict. Essentially predictions of future human conflicts over climate and PEAKOIL will mirror that chaotic hurricane type of solution as the underlying forces are homologous to the sea surface and very likey, isomorphic to it.

All the predictiveness from Global warming studies are subsequently null and void.

Over time I will describe the relevant entropy reflective parameters & their dynamics in more detail

So, Leigh, you think "discussing climate change is a waste of time" I wonder on what you base this conviction. Is it some kind of religious faith, because there is no logical argument for your statement? No one ever said the science was complete and 100% accurate, but the consensus is that if we do nothing there will be a point of no-return and the problem will be too difficult to correct. I am certainly on the side of caution and my own observation tells me that we are getting a loss of biodiversity which is surely anthroprogenic coupled with climate change which I see almost on a daily basis from global news. Even here in Australia our rice crop is virtually non existent this year and our wheat crop has been cut in half not to mention the loss of agriculture in the M/D basin When the disasters become more pronounced Leigh, and food becomes even shorter from the land and the sea, I hope you will be suitably contrite.

I think the remarks made by Ybgirp are a much fairer assessment and represent a much more balanced view. Good on you mate.

How to win friends and influence people, by KAEP.

No wonder people get turned off.

OTOH, what is your valued thoughts about:

The Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectro-radiometer (MODIS) global monthly data from the Terra satellite (MOD08_M3, Collection 4, from March 2000 to May 2006) indicated, with the exception of the tropics, declining trends in aerosol optical thickness (AOD) over much of the globe, in contrast to slightly increasing trends in cloud optical thickness (COT) at many latitudes. In the tropics, increasing AOD trends coincide with increasing COT trends. In the latitudinal distribution of COT, in the Northern Hemisphere, a transition from increasing to declining tendencies was observed between 40°N and 60°N. There is a pronounced hemispheric asymmetry in latitudinal variations of the averaged total AOD, in contrast to those of the averaged total COT?"

KAEP - KISS (keep it simple stupid) and herein lies the dilemma.

ditto for snake