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The Forum > Article Comments > Moderate Islamists and peaceful democracy > Comments

Moderate Islamists and peaceful democracy : Comments

By Louay Abdulbaki, published 10/12/2007

Can we have an Indonesian style of inclusive Muslim democracy in the Middle East?

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A very rosy picture of Indonesia is painted here, and as far as I understand Indonesia was the region taken over by the Muslims with the least bloodshed, so perhaps there is the most hope here.
Yet there are almost daily bombings throughout these islands, and friends of mine who live there say they never go into the larger shopping malls, and do not use public transport in Jakarta, because of the frequency of these attacks.
It's really only under pressure from the West that any progress has been made in Islamic countries in the last 200 years or so. Yet many in these countries resent and reject those changes, seeing them as un-Islamic, and calling for another return to true Islam (the FIS in Algeria is only one example). Democracy is one such Western inovation, and is alien to Islam. The wrong result would be rejected by an Islamic government as much as wrong results are rejected by the US - could you imagine the response if voters in an Islamic republic elected to reject Islam as the source of governmental authority, and throw out Sharia? One would not need the TV to see the blood flowing.
Posted by camo, Monday, 10 December 2007 5:58:43 PM
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Indonesia, like Turkey, MAY turn out to be a Muslim democratic success story. I think, however, it is a little early to declare victory.

There are unfortunately many counter-examples. Iran and Sudan both come to mind.

Malaysia seems to be drifting towards the implementation of sharia much to the discomfort of Malaysian kafirs.

The Muslim insurgency is Southern Thailand is a painful example of how things can go badly wrong. It is hard to see how the insurgency could continue without support from Malaysian Muslim sympathisers across the border.

In Iraq, we should remind ourselves that most deaths have resulted from internecine conflict between Muslim sects.

Finally you may want to ask an Egyptian Copt what it's like being a Christian in Muslim Egypt. I don't mean the "official line" sprouted by the Coptic leadership in Egypt. I mean talk one on one to Copts.

You may also want to ask a few West Papuans how they like being part of the Muslim Javanese Empire which is what Indonesia should be called.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Monday, 10 December 2007 6:54:00 PM
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I wonder if the author has actually been to Indonesia.. or.. if he has visited certain 'hotspots' where the opposites of what he describes as the reasons for peace are in fact realites?

1/ 1900 Central/Nothern Sulawisi is Christian majority, Mainly tribal people of the interior. Some Muslims in Coastal areas.

2/ 19TRANSMIGRATION of Muslims is declared for Sulawisi, and thousands of Muslim Indonesians move to the Christian area and are given land for high value cash crops.

3/ The population balance shifts over time, as does the political balance and opportunities for the Christian community to decide its own destiny as in the past.

4/ Communities are polarized, and finally a single incident of a street fight over a bus fare is enough to trigger communal violence.

5/ Muslims terrorize Christians, hunt them out of their homes, burning.. this happens a number of times and the 'other cheek' is turned... finally, the pressure cooker lid explodes and there are no more cheeks to turn.. Catholic Christians, having barely escaped death at a school burnt down by Muslim mobs, now with nowhere to turn, respond in kind, and massacre some Muslims they corner at a school...
Men, women and children are slaughtered. (Think Ruanda for the visual)

6/ Jihadis from all over Indonesia descend on Sulawisi and try to ethnically cleanse, kill all Christians and vestiges of Christianity.

7/ The most fascinating aspect of this horrific drama, is how the attacks by the Christians (very few compared to those of the Muslims/Jihadists) are portrayed on youtube as some kind of "World/USA/Western/Jewish Conspiracy against poor hapless Muslims, and how the Indonesian government used 'Christian and Buddhist' troops to 'slaughter' innocent Muslims"

Here is an example. (must log-on to view)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQpg7oTck0 <-- very biased Islamist propoganda
(Read the HRW report after this)

FULL HUMAN_RIGHTS_WATCH REPORT here.
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/12/indo1204.htm <-- more objective/balanced
Links to this background report:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/indonesia/indonesia1102-03.htm#P141_20225
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 11 December 2007 10:18:09 AM
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A recent report from my native friend in West Papua stated that about 2,000 of his countrymen have been missing presumed slaughtered by the Indonesian army. Removed without fair trial or justice. The object of the army is to kill without question.

Indonesia is not a peace loving democracy administered by peace advocates for all people, it is rather a democracy administered only by influence of the political power brokers. They incite hatred of each other, they still hold to their tribal hostilities.
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:14:10 PM
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Personally, I think Indonesia is one of the great unsung success stories of the world and that it deserves huge credit for the reasonably peaceful and careful, steady progress over the past few years away from an autocracy towards a modern, plural and democratic state. Although it is overpopulated and faces major economic threates, not the least from China, I think it faces even better times ahead.

On the much more difficult subject of creating freedom and pluralism for Middle Eastern muslims (not to mention other citizens of the region), I found this recent discussion interesting at http://www.opendemocracy.net/audio/5050/16_days/hibaaq_osman
Posted by Ro, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 10:48:07 AM
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Compare Idonesians with Afghanis in Central Asia who have no freedom to speak of (yet), trampled as they constantly are by the very antithesis of moderate or peaceful islam. Indonesians have hope and progress on their side.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/10/news/kabul.php?WT.mc_id=newsalert

The outrageous and disgusting behaviour by groups like the Taliban and their Al Qaeda salafist, wahhabist brethren in pakistan etc. is precisely why we need to keep/boost our troops there and kick heads til they grow up or bugger off, penggertak mugil yang membawa rasa malu dan akan kehilangan perjuangan bebal mereka.

Jihadists of violent political Islam bring the death knell for this faith the world over so moderate members must rise up and challenge them. Fanatics bring bad news and a bad name to all of them.

At Christmas time, I personally wish Indonesians and muslims the world over good tidings and a growing appreciation of pluralism, not supremacy. Democracy, not xenophobia. Science, not ignorance. Innovation, not fear or guilt. Freedom, not division. Food, not war. Peace, not impulse. Hard work, not militancy. Medicine, not revenge. Live children, not a dead Caliphate. Liberty under law, not retribution. Faith, not anger. The Future, not the past.
Posted by Ro, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 11:50:18 AM
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