I am not a Christian, DAVID BOAZ reconfirms I am right not to be in every anti union post.
However one poster tells us we no longer need unions ! because everything that can be invented has been, well all conditions are in place to protect workers?
WORKCHOICES?
To silly to think about, each day something changes in the workplace and needs fixing.
Unions are like any group from shooters to car owners people join for protection and services.
How can anyone? yes anyone? think unions have no place?, how many unionists are Christians too? still dislike them my right wing Christian friend?
Todays union issue, true story from a real union official.
3 years ago I found a firm employing 14 people paying flat rate no overtime less than award.
Took firm to court got back pay order of 12.000 dollars, and gave firm 2 years to pay by installments so it could continue to trade .
Found new contracts for firm and by request wrote at no cost a new agreement.
Firm did not trust it so paid 8.000 to get one written up, it was badly put together and required both a percentage payment and national wage increases!
Informed the boss it would mean by last year of agreement he would be paying much more than his competitors, he insisted he wanted it and signed it in court.
This very day his workers informed me they had no pay increase for 2 years!
Underpayments of 8% for every hour worked for 2 years!
And unions are always wrong?
Boss had this to say cut me a deal you did it last time!
Let me pay it of I should have taken your free agreement, the only difference was the national wages increases.
Just what we had begged him to listen to 3 years ago.
Cut him a deal? or should we think he was waiting for another round of workchoices to further cut his wages?
No more deal, bet on it his workers are human too.

GYM-FISH, I haven't laughed so loudly for a long time when reading your reply to our biblical expert.

Dear Boaz, when the ox falls to ground unable to work anymore, what's wrong with just picking up another ox to work to the ground? Plenty of Oxen to pick from. One is much like another when pulling that plough. If we work it hard and not give it too much of the wheat to eat all the more for me to sell. Everybody will be happy. The people with more wheat available to buy, the family with more money. Pity about those oxen though, but then they aren't people are they?

Me personally, I refuse to see myself as an ox, or any other beast of burden, even a cute llama. Collective bargaining is what I want.

I was listening to Radio National today and heard that terminally ill people can't access sickness benefits because in its desire to rid society of spurious mediterranean back claims the Liberal government ightened the requirements for sickness benefit claims so that sickness benefits are paid to people who

are blind

or meet all the following 3 conditions

1. have been treated for a condition and stabilised, terminal cancer isn't stabilised
2. permanently disabled with more than 20 points of disability
3. unable to work more than 15 hours a week

Sick people get put on Newstart Allowance, which pays $50 per week less and have to comply with looking for work requirements. A person who threw a Grand Mal epileptic fit in a Centrelink queue, the ambulance was called, patient was treated and breached for failing to hand in fortnightly form. When breached a person loses allowances for 8 weeks and Centrelink fought this breach as far as they could.

Our society has become seriously mean, if people with long term illnesses like cancer or TB can't access sickness benefits then we should get rid of all benefits so the malingering bums with bad backs or drug induced psychosis can fend for themselves like the acutely ill do.

GYMFISH..I see you "exercised" your literary skills there in ripping into me :) not bad..

I think you missed the point though. I was not taking one side or the other, but pointing to the fact that 'justice' is the key to good industrial relations. The Biblical proverb about the OX (or lama or polar bear.. you name it.. I don't mind) was simply a word picture about if your income relies on the efforts/labor of another, its in both your and the 'laborer's interests for the Laborer to be happy in his work.

Employers who have mistreated or seek to exploit workers are totally abhorrent to me just as power hungry unions are.
Let me quickly make a distinction.

UNIONS which look after the genuine interess of the workers ARE OK....

UNIONS which go beyond this, and seek to hold onto power..and invent 'issues' and blackmail the country, so they can remain relevant, are NOT OK. (e.g. ETU)

EMPLOYERS who deliberately seek to reduce the 'labor costs' irrespective of justice and purely for bottom line increase are NOT OK.

EMPLOYERS who look for a balance of economic prosperity and wage justice ARE OK.

There.. have you got it now?

By the way mate.. the Topic mentions 'and God'.... don't you think it is appropriate to mention Him in our posts? or are you planning to send me to some gulag for that hmmmm? :)

YVONNE.. yoohoo :) *points to the above*..... but one more thing.

Do you support the right of a worker NOT to be part of a union?
and...not to be threatened or intimdated in the slightest way if he/she feels so?

Because the day some union thug comes to me and tells me 'you have to join'..is the day he finds out just how passionate a man can be about his freedom :)

BELLY.. I think you understand my position mate.. no offense.. I know ur not part of the bad crowd of unionists :) cheers.

I have no argument with your position on Unions and employers Boaz, probably because we are both small-business owners. But there's not a lot of relevance to God, I'm afraid.

>>By the way mate.. the Topic mentions 'and God'.... don't you think it is appropriate to mention Him in our posts?<<

The only reason the author mentioned the G-word was to add a little ginger to an otherwise terminally insipid piece. Look again at the context in which God is invoked:

"The spirit of individualism thrives on fear. It thrives on turning one against another. It thrives on keeping secrets in individual contracts and keeping workers looking over their shoulders. There’s nothing about that in what Pope John Paul II and Archbishop Pell had to say about working life and unions... [a]nd there’s certainly no hint of it when Jesus said, 'When ever two or three of you gather, there I am with you'."

We have the pontifications (sorry!) of the Pope and George Pell as evidence of Jesus' support of the Union movement, and his own words (as reported) on the topic of prayer...

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

Our friend also left out the part about "together in my name" - not even an ellipsis, you will note - which is somewhat significant. The concept of a BLF prayer meet is somewhat mind-boggling.

Typical of a consultant, though.

So, unless you are a particular fan of the concept of Pope and Pell, Industrial Relations 'r' Us, then it's a pretty godless article.

If the bloke believes in God using his belief to tie it to his view of unions is ok by me, even if that means flogging the union movement in Gods name.
However , yes BD I too share your view of that union, not all are silly enough to think being idiots is the only way to represent workers rights.
Thankfully most bosses are not using self interest to claim all unions are wrong.
Being a small business man gentlemen is not evidence that you are always right unions always wrong.
It is not the act of a hero but based on many things including the quest for better lifestyle.
That drives some to be in business.
I have no more support for idiots in unions shirts than any small firms owners but highlight yet again some bosses are little more than thugs and mugs too.