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The Forum > Article Comments > Unions, human rights and God > Comments

Unions, human rights and God : Comments

By Chris Perkins, published 3/12/2007

We believe we are better off when we act together rather than alone, so what is so wrong with being part of a union?

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Typical consultant-speak. High on word-count, high on the use of other people's work, low on original input or insight.

A number of questions immediately spring to mind, just on the choice of references:

What are the qualifications that the Pope brings to the consideration of the place of unions in the conduct of human affairs? Or, for that matter, Cardinal Pell? As individuals, of course, they have every right to make their opinions known. But I would place their understanding of the actual mechanics of workplace relations somewhat lower than those of someone who actually works for a living.

It would be fascinating to take a quick look at the Cardinal's workplace agreement, for example. Or even his job objectives. And by the way, to which Union do they belong...?

And citing the wish-list of virtues that is the UDHR of 1947 is laziness in the extreme, even for a consultant.

In 1947, the world was gripped with post-war idealism, and the UDHR is its perfect expression.

I challenge the writer to explain exactly what "Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment" means in an age dominated by international trade and ever-encroaching capitalism. Are those who start businesses to be forced to employ people at the will of the United Nations? If not, exactly what force does it, or can it, have?

It's just a bunch of long grey words. Good to look at, but useless in a fight.

And the final argument is a doozy - we like togetherness, so we must perforce like Unions. How lazy is that? Over the years I've worked in teams that were so together, we were practically family. Not a Union in sight.

Unions have in the past occupied a valid position defending those exploited by cavalier and greedy bosses. Most of their work is done, with the legislation to protect workplace conditions, health and safety etc., now firmly in place. All they can do now is make a loud noise and pretend they still add value.

Quelle croque, monsieur.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 3 December 2007 8:03:14 AM
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A very good article, if perhaps a little idealistic. As a unionist who raised my family, and consolidated myself financially for my old age via a unionised work environment I totally support the right to collectivly bargain for group advantage, as I also support the right of a business owner to maximise profit by providing service, efficiency, and organisational skills. I do not support the right of a business owner to maximise profit by an on-going process of hire and fire as many seemed to do under the draconian workchoice legislation - a legislation that was seen to be unfair and discriminatory even by the instigators. People are not merchandise - as the writer points out the tendency to form groups for mutual support is a basic human characteristic across society and will not be thwarted by short sighted politically motivated legislation.
Posted by GYM-FISH, Monday, 3 December 2007 9:22:15 AM
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Like any organisation, the concept of the organisation itself is not the problem.

This is why I have issues with the incessant attacks on unions. The concept of unions isn't bad, and you can't just attack unions for being unions. May as well attack businesses for being businesses or factories for being factories.

It's stupidity, but it doesn't stop people on OLO or elsewhere, lining up to say how bad unions are and how they're the death knell of our economy ad nauseum.

To them I say, like people, unions aren't bad or good. They are simply out to represent their members, and they do this with varying degrees of success and a sliding scale of good or bad behaviour.

Some unions have acted abominably, but others have represented their members fairly and without improper behaviour.

There is still a place in our economy for unions, but I'm of the view that it is a much smaller role than it once was, and there needs to be some adaptation in the focus of unions. I think if they take on more of a liaison role with business organisations and perhaps act as recruiters and job placement specialists, they'll be able to diversify and occupy a more relevant niche.

At the end of the day, even if their role is very minor, it's still nice to know they're there to balance out business interests.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Monday, 3 December 2007 9:56:40 AM
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GYM FISH.. you support the right to collectively bargain... ok.. so far so good...

Do you ALSO support (in real world practical terms) the right of a person not to be a union member, nor to participate in industrial action, and to work out their own agreement with their employer?

I live near Johnson tiles. Do I need to say more about heavy handed union thug tactics? (for which a unionist was jailed)

The problem with 'collective bargaining' is a lot like 'Church'... "Oh.. THAT bloke is not 'one of us'...hmmmm" and then..in the union world its a hell of a lot more than a bit of malicious gossip that is utilized to bring him/her into line.. the euphemism is 'organize'.... for that... you might well read

-social ostracization (at best)
-smashed windscreen of your car
-being followed by burley men
-death threats...

When Unionsist take the view "I don't agree with his position, but I'll fight for his right to have it" then we will have alllmost brought in the Millenium or Utopia.

GOD...... the only issue the Bible addresses is "injustice" so.. make of that what you will. It translates into the real world as this "Don't muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain" ... so simple.. so beautiful.. so profound.. and also OBVIOUS !

If you beat, starve, harrass the poor old ox to work harder... errr.. it will probably drop dead before you get what you want.
It must benefit FROM the work it does.. So it is with workers.
At the same time, who is going to run a business which is being bled dry by blood sucking parasites who have been fed a load of garbage about 'class wars' by power hungry opportunistic Unions (like the ETU and formerly the BLF)etc ?
Who wants a society which is extorted by the ETU simply because it controlls 'infrastructure'... We need ONE more 'MUA' style bludgeoning...and its the ETU, with Dean Mighell first to the metaphorical guillotine.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 3 December 2007 10:54:06 AM
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A couple of areas unions could progress to and still add value in the modern workplace are:

1. Join the Workplace Ombudsman as inspectors and policymakers and actually do something permanent about bad employers.
2. Become agents that change some of the old and tired cultures and bad practices that still predominate in a lot of workplaces. It's all well and good for the Government to talk about these things (eg NSW hospitals), but until someone organises on-the-ground change, it's only a dream.
Posted by RobP, Monday, 3 December 2007 11:02:42 AM
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Dear BOAZ
Having noted some of your many comments in OLO I am in no way surprised by the introduction of irrelevant biblical quotations, not to mention your childish and emotive use of non typical examples to add seasoning to your ridiculous polemicising of what is essentially a straight-forward point of view. One could quote examples of equally extreme behaviour by numerous business people and captains of industry. Should you wish to become enlightened in this regard, I suggest that you read some of the industrial history of the nineteen thirties and forties. Bible bashers such as the exclusive bretheran, adventists, mormons, jehovah's witnesses et al have long opposed unionism yet have been happy to take full advantage hard won union conditions.

Purely as an aside, why is that eclectic collection of myths, legends, chronicles of rape, torture, murder, incest and misogynistic brutality - ie the self styled 'holy bible'- always banging on about oxen? Whats wrong with llahmas, or polar bears?
Never mind BOAZ - when the rapture arrives, you will have the last laugh and be able to look down on me as you float above the clouds in a silver chariot or whatever it is. I will of course be smashing windscreens and picketing the holy gates of heaven itself. All the best - see you in hell.
Posted by GYM-FISH, Monday, 3 December 2007 12:14:31 PM
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