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The forest worshippers and their failed mantras : Comments
By John Cribbes, published 10/10/2007The causes of the hyper bushfires of recent years have nothing to do with climate change but everything to do with the forest mismanagement.
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Posted by phoenix94, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 10:38:12 PM
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Thanks, Phoenix94, but the story is pretty well told. Taz is tossing in his usual bunch of fuzzy anecdotes masquerading as information.
The important thing is to use the information in educating the unwashed, for all that is worth. I have lost count of the number of times I have patiently explained things to green committee members and departmental boofheads etc and gone away thinking that some of it might have sunk in, only to find that they have moved on and been replaced by this months turkey with no clue whatsoever. My faith and confidence in these people, both individually and collectively, is zero. We are in a situation similar to the early stages of the North Korean experiment. The ideological die has been cast and the only way out is to let incompetence run its full course. And only when the full horror of public forest ecosystem collapse is unable to be ignored, will there be any chance of improvement. To provide any assistance to this corrupt regime will only prolong the suffering of the dependent species and delay their day of reckoning. It is already very clear that ignorant electoral majorities get the environment they deserve. Posted by Perseus, Thursday, 18 October 2007 11:21:52 AM
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Perseus,
Probably because my generation hobnobbed with the real bushies of old, there has been an unanswered question regarding the possible corelation between bushfire events and rain. Are you aware of any research that is investigating why, after bushfires, there is often a short sharp shower of rain? Could it be that the smoke in the atmosphere is causing an effect far away that ev entually gets here? The mountain cattlemen tell me that on a clear day without a cloud at daybreak they have seen clouds form by noon and storms develop by nightfall. They couldn't get moisture out of smoke so where did it come from? The thought comes to mind that the cessation of most cool burning has a corelation with our drought. Posted by phoenix94, Thursday, 18 October 2007 11:44:27 AM
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“They couldn't get moisture out of smoke so where did it come from?” is a curious question.
The atmosphere contains a lot of water vapor and so does the forest normally contain a lot of moisture Bushfire smoke should also contain moisture, but a forest in drought may have seriously depleted moisture levels above and below ground. The colour of smoke is the best indication of what it contains at any level, the brown means fine particles are suspended in the clouds. Steam on the other hand is white. For years I watched regular forestry burn offs from a distance of about 18-20 km. Simultaneously I could see a pulp mill steam column about 12 km away. Both formed upper atmosphere clouds on a clear day and both condensed as they drifted over uplands on the horizon. Lightening and rain could occur in the distance on a perfect day given a sea breeze. A stationary water spout off the coast had the same effect but that was a once in a lifetime sighting. The uplift of moisture from wet forested gullies is something I have studied on a daily basis. An airflow rising one hundred meters is enough to create a mist and clag like clouds shrouding the hills. Down draft smoke suppression leads to small scale inversions on the same slopes. The thin blue line is a warning to those seeking to start home fires. Draft control of flues can be tricky on the slopes. Rule of thumb the outlet must be six diameters above the nearest ridge But none of this is appropriate for describing our drought affected country much further north. From experience dust storms preceding big bushfires contain fuel but no moisture. These days I won’t do the physics of combustion efficiency, methods of shifting atmospheric contaminants away from the source etc however other folk can start by looking into atomization, vortex cones and compression, cloud rolls, wind shear and so on from the various points of view. Hot tip from another blog- http://www.auf.asn.au/meteorology/section3.html Then there is this lot http://isccp.giss.nasa.gov/climanal1.htm Posted by Taz, Friday, 19 October 2007 5:48:55 AM
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You ask for links re aboriginal burning. Can't give you an Internet link but I suggest the book, "Burning Bush - A Fire History of Australia'" by Prof. Stephen J Pyne, Arizona University. University of Washington Press ISBN0-295-97677-2.
I wouldn't like to confuse 'STEEL' but this is an old fashioned paper book,such as we oldies have always read.
To the best of my belief, Prof Pyne is still a leading world expert on the history of fire. The book explains the origin of the belief that aboriginees undertook many 'mosaic' burns. I must admit that none of them made a record of their activities.
Perseus.
Please maintain this engagement with Sir Vivor. Many of my friends and associates are commenting on your sensible reasoned arguments.
Steel.
Haven't heard from you recently. Despite your youth, your lack of input is missed.