Leaving politics aside for a mo, how perverse that the sanctions have created a society in Cuba which will be the model for a future western world. A world without cheap energy, with a muscle powered agrarian revolution. A world of ingenuity and making-do. A world of universal education, reclaimed wisdom and community care.

Cubans don't describe the crash of their old economy as a depression. They recognise it as an inevitable turning point and call it, "The Special Time". Our special time is yet to come.

It's all the more amazing when you consider how much "junk mail" they cop from the Yanks.

Hopefully we will see the video, "The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil" on our TVs soon. Website here:

http://www.powerofcommunity.org/cm/index.php

Cuba is everything America is not.

Praise be!

Maybe if we compared the number of political opponents in Cuba and the USA who have been imprisoned we might learn a lot about those two countries. Any sign of Ms Clinton, Mr Obama or others who oppose GWB being arrested for holding heterodox views?

If the Australian Government could metaphorically extract themselves from GWB's orifice long enough to see what benefits could acrue from a positive attitude towards Cuba,they could benefit public health in this country as have countries like East Timor who has over 200 cuban doctors working throughout the country,a medical faculty in the University, hundreds of students studying medicine in Cuba where through necessity Cubans have abandoned reliance on expensive American monopolised pharmaceuticals to research and successfully develop their own industry.

There is a lot to be said for the Cuban's 'special time' when they have had to learn to be self sufficient. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Viva Cuba !!

It is a embargo, not a blockade. Cuba is free to trade with the rest of the world, but like my friends in Mexico say. they dont make anything we want. sugar and cigars are produced by many many other countries. fidel had all of the citrus groves cut down back about 62 so there are not many oranges or grapefruits to sell, until very recently. As for providing for their people. average Mexicans have much better access to healthful drinking water and sufficient food. Back when the cubans were "the children of the soviets" as they say there, wastewater treatment plants were built, when the soviets left the plants broke down and have never been repaired. sewage is still collected by the pipes and the outfall still goes in the rivers. drinking water treatment in the average cuban rural household is primitive at best. no 100 micron filters there. people use a fine grained sandstone rock with a basin carved into it and the water drip filters thru it. The water comes from the local river, which likley is downstream from a old soviet era wastewater plant. It seems that instead of trying to fix their problems the government just blames everything on the embargo. If they cant fix their houses cause of shortage of materials why are they selling the Jamacians 5000 tons of cement a month

sage,

It is a federal offence in the USA to accept foreign funding for election campaigns. The "librarians" and others convicted of accepting foreign gold for political purposes in Cuba took it straight from the hands of American government officials. Anyone doing the same in the good old USA would suffer a similar penalty.

No-one has been prosecuted for it lately, because foreign-owned corporations based in the USA or donating through American branches are considered legitimate donors and provide a very wide loophole for sufficiently wealthy foreign individuals. Citibank, for instance, is a major donor, largely owned by the ibn Saud family and associates. The US government has long been bought by domestic capital, but the oligarchs of the rest of the "free world" own significant minority shares.

The USA has numerous "heterodox" political prisoners on its own soil:

http://www.prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/pplist-alpha.shtml

And of course it also maintains prisons elsewhere. Cuba, for instance. On the island of Cuba there are more political prisoners held without trial behind American barbed wire at Guantanamo than there are convicted political detainees in the gaols of Cuba proper.

The idea that a wealthy corporate Democrat like Hillary Clinton is somehow "heterodox" makes me laugh.

LEFTY RUBBISH?

Dear Timbo

Is far leftist orthodoxy now:

"Indeed. Robert Hill personally, as Defence Minister, directed Australian bombing raids and missile strikes in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. He was personally responsible for the slaughter of many thousands of innocent Iraqis"

This is an offenssive comment matey and more significant than your Cuban sympathies.

Do you have proof that Australian pilots and soldiers killed thousands in Iraq or are you merely a sad Lefty nutcase?

Pete

'Indeed. Robert Hill personally, as Defence Minister, directed Australian bombing raids and missile strikes in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.'

Human Rights Watch analysed the deaths of the innocents in Iraq. In one of their reports it was stated the vast majority of civillian deaths during the invasion were caused by ground fire and not airborne arms or missiles.

Why the need to make such general statements without evidence? It only calls into question objectivity.

xoddam, I’m not talking about self-declared political prisoners nor am I talking about the likes of Timothy McVeigh who, because they might be at odds with the government decide to blow up a building. Nor am I talking about illegal combatants being rebadged as political prisoners. Under such rules we could say that USA soldiers are merely armed public relations operatives hired by the government. I’m talking about the 75 Cuban writers and dissidents who were thrown into the slammer by Castro for having the temerity to oppose Castro. Noam Chomsky has views which are at odds with GWB but I am not aware of any arrest warrant bearing his name. If you have any information about Mr Chomsky’s arrest or relocation to Guantanamo Bay please inform the debate.

Ms Clinton is for troops our of Iraq; fighting terror with cooperation; asking Arabic and muslim countries to take women leaders more seriously; yes to stem cell research…..etc. Does she not hold heterodox views to those held by GWB and the GOP?

Castro is a loathsome dictator who has done far more to impoverish his people than the actions of the USA, but I agree the sanctions should be removed. They only end up hurting those who are already Castro’s victims, namely ordinary Cubans.

As Saddam demonstrated so clearly, tyrants don’t give a hoot if sanctions hurt their citizens, so long as they and their cronies and families can continue to live as a privileged elite.

Indeed, by allowing their citizens’ suffering to be blamed on foreign governments, they divert attention from sanctioned governments’ own culpability and can actually reinforce their power.

Castro is surely living proof of the ineffectiveness of sanctions in achieving regime change.

Most of today’s Australians weren’t born when he seized power. During Castro’s dictatorship, the USA has had 10 heads of state – Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush snr, Clinton, and Bush jnr. He is, I believe, the longest serving head of state in the world outside the hereditary monarchies (although given that his brother appears to be his anointed successor, maybe running Cuba is to become a family affair).

The sanctions should be dropped because they clearly don’t work.

"Viva Cuba !!"

That might well happen, once the dictator Fidel, finally falls
off the proverbial perch, the sooner the better!

The end of food ration cards, the end of state control over
everything, finally perhaps freedom of speech and the press,
will no doubt be welcomed by most Cubans. Shame on Fidel for
not giving them a chance to vote on all of this and kick him
out long ago.

But then Fidel, as a fanatical control freak, would have trouble
dealing with his people telling him to get stuffed. Thats politics
for you.

I must be very slow, but I noticed that again in this article we are told about "international laws".

What I would like to be told about these laws are:

1. Who enacts these laws?

2. By what right do they enact them?

3. If an organisation enacts them is it democratically constituted?

4. Can they be repealed?

We seem to be moving into a very anti-democratic world where people say "human rights are too important to be controlled by parliaments", and where the consent of the people is totally disregarded. Of course, we know that the UN general assembly is a joke, and that its resolutions can be read with amusement, particularly as they come form an organisation where India has the same representation as Nauru. Possibly this is because the radical left cause has given up on ever obtaining the consent of the people for their programs. This is not really a surprise, as since the time of Lenin the communist party knew full well that they never at any time had the support of a majority of the people.

Viva Cuba!!

http://www.therealcuba.com/index.htm

We well remember the dictator and US stooge Batista of Cuba, who at the time, was known throughout the world for torturing all opponents opposed to the blatant criminal actions he was carrying out. Even amongst dictators and their filthy right wing politics Batista stood out.The general population were kept in the most abject poverty and innequality. Let us not forget the mafia and all the other criminals who were welcome with open arms in Cuba. This was the period when the US recognised Cuba and plundered the country -colonial plunder.

At the same time it is important to recognise that Castro came out of the military, and never ever fought for genuine socialism. Castro was always, repeat always an opponant of the mobilization of the working class and internationalism. Like many, including Mao he based himself on armed peasant uprisings. Again and again this perspective created disaster after disaster, particular throughout Latin America. Peasants are small agricultural landholders and are not a revolutionary class. Only the working class can lead mankind out of the present disaster that is approaching.

johncee1945

Yep.

Up the Workers Brother/Sister.

And may we not feel the niggling irritations of President (for Life) Comrade/Generalissimo Fidel Castro's Beard.

May we always have a revolutionary Octogenarian Fernando of the Western Hemisphere (OFWH) to make us safely derivative of the American Left.

Comrade Pedro
Hero of the Soviet Union
Order of the Purge

Chris

If Cuba is such a great place why do nearly a quarter of all Cubans choose to live outside of Cuba?

You talk a lot about Bush’s propaganda but NO-ONE does propaganda better than Fidel Castro.

Can you tell me Chris, why Cuba has one health system for the poor and another for foreigners and Party members?

Agrarian revolution? Are you joking? Ask the Cambodians about Pol Pots agrarian socialism. Talk to the Bolivians about the Shining Path; see what they have to say about agrarian revolution.

You’re living in fairyland if you think the Cubans are happy with their current predicament. You must be quoting Castro’s media mouthpieces. The only way Cubans can actually talk to outsiders without being monitored and censored is through untraceable internet links.

Wake Up. The world has tried communism and it has failed SPECTATCULARLY, always causing immense damage to the local people.

Quote “Cuba is everything America is not” Chris that is out and out bigotry, do you even know any actual real Americans? Have you ever been to America, besides Hollywood or Disneyworld?

What this really illustrates is that the 21St century version of the NOBLE SAVAGE myth is alive and well. It’s clearly a cult like religion with far left loonies. “Praise Be” says Chris.

It continues to amaze me that you can’t see that the websites you throw up are sprouting propaganda themselves. Please tell me you are recent convert to this far-left craziness.

JohnCee1945

Lenin’s October revolution was a revolution of the working class. Real Marxism. It failed miserably. Communism never works because it relies upon the good intentions of its Dictators. But absolute power corrupts absolutely and so Stalinism is the result.

No arguments about Batista. But how can you pretend Castro was any better?

Never forget that the most cruel and muderous dictators have had filthy left wing prejudices. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. Only Hitler comes anywhere near these other three for pure genocidal mania.

Here's the movie by bittorent Paul:

http://onebigtorrent.org/details.php?id=1777

Truly, it's worth a watch. It has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with the human spirit and the power of community. These are not crushed and broken people. They are not brainwashed people. They are intelligent, educated and healthy people.

- you may have trouble dealing with this - because no-one is wearing designer clothes -

"It has everything to do with the human spirit and the power of community."

Chris, you seem to forget that during times of war, there are
countless examples of human spirit and the power of community.

That does not mean that its peoples lifestyle choice, it just
means that they have no other options. Thats very much the
case in Cuba.

Yabby, I think that anytime soon, we Australians are going to run out of options. That's why this documentary is important. It has nothing to do with politics. It is all about an entire society suddenly colliding with physical reality.

It may very well be that the "smart" Cubans who "escaped" to Florida did everyone else a favour, because they may otherwise have proven to be a dreadful burden to the rest. Florida is the home of many very tacky characters, and Bush's brother is their natural Governor therefore. It fits.

Here in Australia, we are still sticking to the dessicated ideas of dessicated old men. Despite the promised paperless revolution, it seems that we are still planning to mill forests into copier paper, cardboard cartons and bum paper - all of it destined for the tip, without exception. Think of that. We are going to send whole forests to the tip, using heaps of fresh water, energy and chemicals.

There's a dessicated idea for you!

The only difference between our dessicated old men and Cuba's dessicated old men is that their dessicated old men have run their course. They aren't needed any more.

Australia's dessicated old men still hold sway over our economy, our quantum of the global environment, our hopes, our fears, our families, our futures, our balls.

- so I think that it would be unwise for any of us to take a superior attitude.

Viva cojones!

Here's that link again (700 Mb bittorrent):
http://onebigtorrent.org/details.php?id=1777

"it seems that we are still planning to mill forests into copier paper, cardboard cartons and bum paper"

Chris, I am not about to go on any guilt trips, about wiping
my bum with paper :) Yes, we use a bit of paper, the question
is how sustainable is it?

As far as I can see, the population of Australia is low enough
that with a few brains, we can actually live sustainably, which
is the critical question.

Yup there are some major global issues, but they need mega solutions,
not feelgood solutions. Since Kyoto was signed, we have added
880 million people to the world population. The Catholic Church
wants us to keep adding more.

Its fairly pointless to run off on a feelgood guilt trip, whilst
these sorts of issues are hardly discussed by by the global
community.

So I shall keep using toilet paper and so will most of my friends.
You are free to have sleepless nights about it, but its really
not going to interfere with my sleep too much :)

Just watch the documentary!

Chris, 700mb is 70% of my monthly wirelss broadband allowance,
so I am not about to blow it on the say so of some fanatic.

Surely you could express the main points in a few sentences.

Everything else about the Cuban economy has been a disaster.
You have expressed no reasoned arguments as to why things
have changed.

If your doco is so amazingly good, I am sure that SBS
would screen it.

Until Cuba meets the same standards of respect for human rights as the US/Australian allied moderate, anti-terrorist states, i.e., Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Jordan and Israel, the embargo should be supported.

An interesting thought on "human rights" as it exists in Cuba. In the year before the downfall of the US (read CIA) installed dictator, ex Sgt Batista, the following numbers were evident from Cuban national data:

1958 inhabitants per physician - 1,076
2003 - 165
1958 inhabitants per dentist - 27,052
2003 - 1098

Infant mortality per 1,000 of population
1958 - 60.0
2003 - 6.3

In Oz the ratio of full-time equivalent (FTE) doctors to patients would be lower than 0.71:1,000 (Australian Department of Health and Ageing, 2005). So, per head of population, Cuba has neary twice as many physicians as our nation!

If human rights is an issue, one has to wonder, even without consideration of medical professionals' ratio, just from the infant mortality rate, how many million Cubans would now NOT be alive, were it not for Fidel and (Dr) Ernesto Guevara de la Serna (Che), all this in spite of the US embargoes.

Think about it a little more deeply than just "reds under the bed".....

Jim

Jim

That's quite compelling data.

My main gripe with Tim's article was not his valid concerns about Cuba (not to mention the Miami mafia's control of US policy). My concern was his throw away allegations about Australians killing "thousands" of Iraqi's.

Thats the way I interpret Tim's odd words:

"Indeed. Robert Hill personally, as Defence Minister, directed Australian bombing raids and missile strikes in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. He was personally responsible for the slaughter of many thousands of innocent Iraqis".

After several days Tim hasn't provided evidence to back it up after being asked.

If this isn't bloody-minded propaganda (red or otherwise) what is it?

Pete

Jim,

Medical data on Cuba is highly suspect since the WHO merely report the statistics supplied by the Castro regime. They rely on the honesty of the reporting party since no checks are done on the data's validity.

If you go to any free cuban website you will see that the regimes claims are flatly denied. Indeed you can see pictures of their two tiered medical establishments.

There are facilities for party memebers and foreigners which are quite modern and up to date. But the majority of the people are forced to endure a thouroughly third world medical system.

Plantagenet,

So the cuban mafia controls cuban policy, the Israeli lobby controls Israeli policy and the oil companies oversee everything? I thought you said you were a centerist.

Well Paul

If you'd watched The Good Shepherd, which you've paraphrased old chap, you'd know that its us WASPS who (think we) control everything.

People who are guided by principles rather than by predictable political affiliations are a threat to some, like you? ;)

BTW economic determinism (eg. oil) is central to capitalist thinking. Why not admit the obvious?

Pete

Sapper, you seem to miss the point entirely.

So Fidel did a better job then Batista, when you compare
the results 50 years later. Who is to say that Joe Bloggs
could not have done much better then Fidel?

If you are honest, you would have to admit that Fidel
screwed up a whole lot of stuff too.

The problem really is all these controlling types, who
think that they know what is best for others and try to
enforce it. Why not let those others decide what is
best for themselves?

Fact is that if people had been allowed to decide, they
may well have kicked Fidel out and voted for Joe Bloggs.
Joe Bloggs might well have done a far better job then
Fidel ever did.

The real problem is Fidel. As a control freak he clearly
could not handle that kind of outcome, as few politicians
can. But its the only way for people to have more say
about their lives. I don't like control freaks telling
me what to do and and I don't see why the Cuban people
don't have a choice as to who governs them. So far all
we have heard is excuses, excuses, excuses.

Robert Hill, Robert Hill Robert Hill!

The hypocrisy of this individual and his plastic haired chest is manifest in his history.

Called up in 1965, deferred to complete his law degree to 1966, the again deferred to get his Masters in the UK, completed in 1968, and he had until 1972 to complete his obligation to nation, which he did not, becomes the icon of the right as Minister for Defence in Australia?

Actions speak louder than words, his political positioning sees him as a GWBist, yet his life action see him as a leftist!

Pure bloody hypocritical opportunist, and yellow striped back, whichever political position one takes.

Cojones, not on this little XY chromosome. At least Che had balls!