Chris,

Yes it is us in the west who are truly evil. We are responsible for all the terrorist atrocities. Its really the dictatorships and religious theocracies who are the true searchers of truth and the guiding light for morality and goodness in the world. The west never acts in good faith. It only ever uses this as a cover to enrich the handful of elites who get them elected. No one in politics actually wants to make the world a better place, all they want to do is enrich themselves. No one walked on the moon, JFK was killed by the CIA, Timoth McVeigh and Terry Nichols were FBI patsy’s. The Americans demolished the twin towers with explosives so that they could wage war on the whole world. The US invaded Somalia to steal their camels. Nato carpet bombed the Serbs to suppress the communist Milosevic and drive up the price of oil. Iran is merely trying to help the Iraqis by providing them with advisers and bomb making equipment. They want nuclear weapons but they won’t use them, they just need these weapons to protect them from the Israelis who are continually attacking them. North Korea doesn’t really have 10% of its population in prison camps or regularly threaten its neighbours with nuclear attack. China isn’t interested in militarily overthrowing the democratically elected gov’t in Taiwan. We didn’t go Timor to prevent genocide, that would never have happened. We went there to steal their resources.

The US gov’t/ Nato doesn’t declare wars, it’s the military industrial complex, who are hell bent on world domination through financial conquest. The western democracies are the source of all that’s wrong with the world. Oh and this is a fair and balanced assessment.

The extreme left have taken leave of their senses. There are conspiracies everywhere.

Apart from everything else, the left have pointed out – and I agree, George Bush isn’t very intelligent. The idea that THEY could keep anything like this a secret is so far fetched it has to be a joke

My thanks to Gary as an expert in the field of defence and security for providing credible support for views which I formed as a gut reaction to John Howard's foreign policy and border security initiatives. It's good to know that when one's principles are challenged there are sound practical reasons for following them. If only people like Peter Costello ("My mother taught me that if you tell the truth you have nothing to worry about.") remembered his mother's advice in the national arena too! It may well be members of the Coalition of the Willing really did believe U.S. "intelligence" about weapons of mass destruction, but there was plenty of other dissenting intelligence closer to home which they chose to ignore. They certainly ignored that of the UN inspectors who were later vindicated, and acted without the sanction of the United Nations in invading Iraq, a major trading partner of ours with whom we continued to trade clandestinely. In this and other instances, truthfulness apart, our government has acted in ways that are repugnant to our sense of right and wrong. For Howard to claim that he doesn't lie is an insult to our intelligence when we know he chooses his words so carefully that when challenged he can retrospectively claim to have "told the truth" or acted "honestly". Australians now listen to every his word and nuance with distrust. "Core" and "non-core" promises are now part of our political lexicon. But politics and strategic defence issues apart we are a straight forward people and know that actions speak louder than words. Locking up refugees for years, supporting the bombing of thousands of innocent civilians, and demonising sections of our community are all immoral acts. The 'truth' will always be another casualty when a nation accepts that these things are acceptable for its national security. If Kevin Rudd disappoints on ethical issues like these I will be among the first to criticise.

Gary,

One aspect of Howard's government has really "turned my guts" and that is his government's use of alcohol taxes to fund their coffers while Australians suffer with it's non published addictive affects ..

Watching a program on a Sunday comercial TV today [16th] I was surprised to hear of the few paltry millions [About 10 million dollars ] put into alcohol education programes compared to the BILLIONS of dollars raised through alcohol taxes .

Time and again the doctors, police and those who do the economics on drug abuse said ALCOHOL is the WORST DRUG problem .

I refuse to believe ANYTHING Tony Abbott and Howard says on how to improve Aussis' health unless they place graphic health warnings on alcohol containers and have a program in schools that explains to young people the affects of alcohol .

They are a socially irresponsible ,big business government .

Oh dear, Paul - it was only a matter of time before someone conflated moon landings with our inconvenient speculations. The green cheese gambit has been done to death before, and we were all enjoying a bit of a rest from it.

As for taking leave of one's senses, anyone who can remember what life felt like only ten years ago, would have to admit that the world has gone barking mad - and not, I remind you, under the influence of any government which could be considered even remotely left wing. That especially includes Blair's "New Labor" pantomime.

As for the machinations of my government and it's cohorts, of course it is my responsibility to point out their delusions and their sloppy crimes. What else would you expect me to do?

Now, tomorrow's news today. Alan Greenspan sez Iraq largely about oil, as flagged in this morning's Times:

http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article2461214.ece

Rewind to April - Richard Gage gives the lie to the conspiracy theory that architects are a bunch of boring tits (Google video):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3673080104421876809&q=Richard+gage+how+the+towers+fell&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Which fits really neatly into this new discovery:

http://www.nymegaphone.com/node/24

- in which Eliot Spitzer, as Attorney General of NY, quietly gives Larry and financiers a helping hand in their ploy to get a double insurance payout for the WTC demolition.

Mesothelioma? It makes Hardie look like a bunch of milksops. Count your meagre blessings.

Dunno about you, but I really enjoyed this thread. Cheers all

Gary Brown and his sympathisers are bereft of any notions of survival.The Middle East supplies 65% of the world oil and 40% of natural gas.Without the US in the Middle East controlling all these feral groups the whole World would be in total crisis of WW3.Why do you think Japan agreed to send troops to Iraq?They went to war in 1941 for fear of energy starvation and a loss of export markets.

Apparently the lefties in western societies do not use energy or plastics from oil products in their daily lives.Perhaps we should give China free reign in the Middle East,then they could murder all the Muslims and take the oil for themselves and sell it back to us for 5 times the price.Cheap energy underpins our living standards more than any new technologies in IT.That is the reality.

Will Gary Brown and his followers ever move from their simplistic, tunnelled,visioned gestalt of an evil business world waiting to prey upon them,when they in fact live off the fruits of an highly competitive private enterprise system without actually suffering the pain?

It is the ultimate in hypocracy when we have so many in our society who will gladly reap the benefits of free enterprise and denegrate the very system that sustains them.

FIRST NELSON NOW GREENSPAN - ITS MAINLY ABOUT OIL

Paul take notes please.

Well spotted CHRIS

That lefty Alan Greenspan in that lefty rag, London’s Sunday Times, states the obvious that centrists, the Left and other people of integrity have being saying for years.

Mr Greenspan was THE Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve [Bank] of the US from 1987 to 2006. So he is one of the most senior analysts of US Government activity with many conservative sources.

He can no longer be bought unlike some regime fellow travellers…and brainwashed Aussie “patriots”.

So I quote Mr Greenspan's Times article in full:

The (London) Sunday Times September 16, 2007:

“AMERICA’s elder statesman of finance, Alan Greenspan, has shaken the White House by declaring that the prime motive for the war in Iraq was oil.

In his long-awaited memoir, to be published tomorrow, Greenspan, a Republican whose 18-year tenure as head of the US Federal Reserve was widely admired, will also deliver a stinging critique of President George W Bush’s economic policies.

However, it is his view on the motive for the 2003 Iraq invasion that is likely to provoke the most controversy. “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,” he says.

Greenspan, 81, is understood to believe that Saddam Hussein posed a threat to the security of oil supplies in the Middle East.

Britain and America have always insisted the war had nothing to do with oil. Bush said the aim was to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction and end Saddam’s support for terrorism.”

But Mr Greenspan’s advice is out of step with the US/Israeli neocon worldview and derivative brain-tarts cannot imagine why the US is still in Iraq other than fighting terrorism where there was none before “democracy and stability”. Well the Middle East has always been undemocratic and unstable and full of tribal/sectarian/insurgents - now called terrorists but hey IT HAS OIL ;-)

Pete
(Teaching stout patriots about current affairs is a necessary duty :)