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The Forum > Article Comments > Dealing with a national tragedy - failure is not an option > Comments

Dealing with a national tragedy - failure is not an option : Comments

By Tom Calma, published 3/9/2007

'How would you feel if there was a law which made it OK for you to be discriminated against because of your race?'

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Well argued Tom Calma, but you'll get the usual OLO apologists asserting that if you want the Government to be consultative that means you don't really want child abuse to stop, that the Government knows what's best, that any delay will be catastrophic, etc.

There can be no proper answer to Muriel Bamblett's question: “How would you feel if there was a law which made it OK for you to be discriminated against because of your race?” But I'll bet you'll get some from the usual suspects on OLO.

As for it not being too late for consultation, monitoring and review, you assume that this Government intervention is meant to be ongoing past the next election. The warning signs that the intervention is really about something else are precisely those you drew attention to:
* the compulsory acquisition of property,
* the abolition of the CDEP employment scheme and
* changes to the permit system.

No-one in the Government has any proper answer to the question: what have these measures got to do with child protection?
Posted by FrankGol, Monday, 3 September 2007 10:58:28 AM
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Sorry I took my shoes of before I entered this thread and promise I am whispering.
Went shopping today an RDO, quietly minding my own business in and out you know the way it is.
Just like every trip into town people who can not read or write begging in the streets fighting swearing in the streets not just rubbish in the gutters.
Just asking is it OK that as I do not give money I am called a white *&^%$?
Thats not racism is it?
After all it is white mans fault they can not read or understand it is wrong isn't it?
How fair dinkum is this author?
Children being raped.
neglected, cdep? do you know how much money was never used on the people it was meant to help?
have you seen cars never returned? on the beach fishing driven by people who have not worked for years in that now gone scheme?
stop the rubbish get some truth in the community and leave the racist rubbish
Posted by Belly, Monday, 3 September 2007 3:47:01 PM
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'Measures taken with neither consultation nor consent cannot meaningfully be said to be for the “advancement” of a group of people, as is required by the legal definition of “special measures”.'

The State Governments of WA and NT have tried 'the consultation' process now for 50 years. All it has led to is one failed experiment after another. To allow the communities to continue the way they are is child neglect at its worst.

At some point of time it is going to take someone with enough guts or concern for these indigeneous children to take drastic measures. It will take a man like Noel Pearson who has genuine concern for his people to be brave enough to stop the talk and start the rescue.
Posted by runner, Monday, 3 September 2007 5:58:05 PM
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Belly and Runner ,
Would you please answer this question ?

Why did Howard and Brough decide that the Northern Territory Police Association's RECOMENDATION , that the Permit System REMAIN in force, [in the best interests of law and order for all Aboriginals including children,] should be totally ignored ??

I would like to thank Tom Calma for his great work under considerable pressure from conservative political forces .

John Howard put his and the Liberal Government's position twice the other day in Hermansberg and at another community, for Aboriginal People and by implication their Culture , to become part of the white "mainstream " .

Without changing, their future will be "bleak" under HIS government.

No Ifs or Buts !

And that is unequivical Ugly Racism in my book, pure and simple .
Posted by kartiya jim, Monday, 3 September 2007 10:08:23 PM
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A friend of mine who is a builder offered his services for free to help Aborigines build their own houses in Western NSW.ATSIC refused all funding for this self help programme of giving building skills to Aboriginal people so they could do it for themselves.

Just the other day he got a call saying Commonwealth funding would make it possible.He is providing his services for free.ATSIC should hang their heads in shame.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 3 September 2007 10:20:19 PM
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One must remember that when a situation has been permitted to deteriorate to this level and stage it means that our Govenment has failed in it's duty of care. In order to protect themselves the Government attacks so as to upset and destabilise the Aboriginal people and so as to be able to blame everything on the Aboriginal people themselves.

Our Governments know that it will be really easy to blame the Aboriginal people, but the plight of the Aboriginal people has occurred because of the abuses and failure of Law and Order......and it will happen in the white commmunity too if something isn't done about alcohol, drugs and the failure of the education system to engage and educate many of our disadvantaged youth.

The best way to have dealt with this sort of issue would have been to set up stations where the ABoriginal people could make complaints and allegations about those in thier Community who were abusing children and failing in their duty of care and know that they will be dealt with fairly and properly no matter who was to blame. They should have given the power to the Aboriginal people to bring those people to account first.

Then they have to fix up the Education system and the attitude towards Aboriginal children in schools.

Oh and by the way there is already a group that is permitted to be discriminated against. Discrimination against gifted children is not against the law. I know because it is happening to my children and the Anti-Discrimination board says that it doesn't count.

Education - Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/
Our children deserve better
Posted by Jolanda, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 8:27:56 AM
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Noel Pearson, a hero of Australia's first people a leader in waiting.
In his speech on ABC radio today, a recording of his speech at a writers conference made much sense.
He told of the first step in a better life for Aboriginal children, as easy some times as washing the child and taking them if they are ill to a medical center.
Do some understand this is often a task too hard for some parents?
How do you blame white fella for this? or the stolen generation?
He reminded me and I hope every one no government will ever resolve this issue by legislation, no government can stop grog abuse child neglect but would you have them stop trying?
How hard is it to see the children go to school clean and tidy?
Eat before the money is spent on grog?
I know this is a shame on my country, but it shames those who sit and let it happen too.
Clone Noel a thousand times but do not forget hold your selves accountable for your action or lack of it.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 5:24:44 PM
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No answer Belly, to my question ??
Posted by kartiya jim, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 10:09:20 PM
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kartiya jim,

Assuming you're FrankGol, here's your answer. They have nothing to do with saving the children, nor even saving the adults. Instead they represent an idealogical drive which will mean that what could have been the best chance to fix the many problems afflicting these communities will go to the way side.
Posted by James Purser, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 10:15:52 PM
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Belly , I used to agree with you .

Pearson's attitude , [along with Warren Mundine's]to TRADITIONAL Aboriginal Culture should be a concern for all Tribal Aboriginal People .

Mundine's non-commital attitude to the continuation of Aboriginal Culture in the Northern Territory Is a disgrace .

Has He lost His Dreaming??

He's " chucked it in " with the whites as far as I'm concerned .
Posted by kartiya jim, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 10:26:28 PM
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James Purser

Let me assure you, kartiya jim and I do not inhabit the same body/mind. Nor do I masquerade as BOAZ-David.

I've never met kartiya jim, but I'm sure he's a fine person - intelligent, sensitive, compassionate, so thanks for the compliment.

Now what was the question you thought we asked?
Posted by FrankGol, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 11:57:25 PM
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FrankGol,

Apologies, I hadn't read through kat's post to see his question.

I was replying to this question in your first post:

No-one in the Government has any proper answer to the question: what have these measures got to do with child protection?
Posted by James Purser, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 12:00:35 AM
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Is it too hard to admit that first Aboriginal Australians should shoulder the blame for some of this?
My friend above lets the light in on his/her racism, gone in with the whites?
How bl@@dy hard is it to say, MY KIDS WILL BE EDUCATED? FED? CLOTHED? WASHED?
NOT SEXUALLY MOLESTED?
Can it always be white mans fault? how then can this community progress?
How can you on one hand say your community is being left out then claim making it part of mainstream Australia is racist?
How can you denie before white man came these same people who make up these community's would use laws to stop this much harsher than white mans laws?
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 6:09:29 AM
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James Purser

Apologies accepted. My protest was tongue in cheek as you might have guessed.

By the way, I agree in the main with your assessment of the Government's motivations (what have these measures got to do with child protection?)

I think it goes further than ideology. But the evidence won't be clear for a while.

Incidentally, reports from the Northern Territory yesterday say that three months into this so-called 'emergency intervention', not one single case of child sexual abuse has been brought forward. Some emergency!
Posted by FrankGol, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 10:33:24 AM
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Arjay, ATSIC has been dead and buried for over two years now.
You're not making this all up to suite your arguement again are you?
C'mon, even you're better than that.(or are you?)
Posted by Rainier, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 9:07:24 PM
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Rainer he has been involved in these type of programmes for a few yrs.I was unaware that ATSIC was abolished.It is not contrived story.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 9:52:14 PM
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FrankGol,

Yeah I saw that.

Belly, the aboriginal communities know there is a problem, they're the ones who have been screaming for a solution for the past twenty years. They know who are the ones beating the wives and children and they know who are the ones supplying the alcohol (who are predominantly white by the way).

You're not going to fix the problems by just putting more police on the ground. You need to deal with the whole community, from the smallest child to the oldest elder. You are certainly not going to deal with the alcohol problem by saying you can't drink on land, but if you stand in the river chug away.
Posted by James Purser, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 10:30:45 PM
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James Purser do you think I do not know that?
Some who post in such threads here are Aboriginal, not me, but by blood I am uncle to a few.
By choice I have supported them all my life, however far too many want nothing but money.
Far too many who can not even read or write, act as bad as any racist ever did.
is it OK to say it is the women and kids who suffer but do nothing?
Have you seen a man bleed to death?
I have while he cried he did not want to die.
While Australia is shamed by the living conditions of our first people, without doubt it often is those people who bare the shame.
have you seen neglected children in pain with no hope? if not you are blind, our task is to make both white and black totally accountable for our actions.
And that includes so very many who from within this Aboriginal community do far more harm than any white man.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 6 September 2007 4:19:58 PM
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Belly,

At no time am I saying that we shouldn't bring to task those who have been doing wrong, whether black or white. However I want to make sure that those who would lay the blame only at the black door don't allow the whites who have been aiding and abetting the problems to get away.

There has to be a whole community approach to the problems. Just saying "we'll save the children" does nothing if you don't save the adults as well.
Posted by James Purser, Thursday, 6 September 2007 4:46:27 PM
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Arjay, yours was the only response to Steve Hagan’s piece (Thursday, 20 January 2005 9:38:15 PM) which argue that the demise of ATSIC has removed the voting rights of Indigenous Australians.

Your wrote:

o The leaders of the Aboriginal community have to top shooting the messenger.Anglo Saxions pay a high price for their material luxuries. We no longer have the extended family,and have little trust in the few relationships that give us solice,thanks to a perverted legal system. Traditional Aborigines had no concept of Australia as a continent.Like Eurpoeans they were murdering each other for advantage and survival.The Romans and Vikings invaded England,the Spanish invaded Ireland,what makes the Aborigines such a special case? To give the Aborigines special treatment is treating them as inferior beings.Thus we have destroyed them with handouts to appease our consciences. Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 20 January 2005 9:38:15 PM

Does this mean you just like going off half cocked when any of the articles are about Aboriginal people and issues? A good racist rant?

Or is this indicative of the early onset of dementia?
Posted by Rainier, Thursday, 6 September 2007 10:10:35 PM
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Can asking me over and again to share the blame for the disgusting way these people sometimes live change anything?
Yes we know it is our fault white Australia is to blame.
Not for taking kids from homes, yes sometimes that crime was just that a crime, sometimes it was from a home not fit for a dog, sometimes it saved lives.
Right now the only difference is we ignore that some homes are still like that but do not give the kids a chance.
200 years plus and so very many can not write or understand English.
Some can not understand either white mans law or Aboriginal law
White man by his actions is the blame, stop sit down money now, only the aged should get social welfare.
Stop building new homes that are destroyed in half the time it took to build them.
Stop our fear of being called racist and applied the law equally to all.
accountability, education, work not dole, and except it, screaming racism at whites is just a bl@2dy lie.
Children being raped? and its always white mans fault?
it shames all those who failed to act not those who did.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 7 September 2007 6:47:40 AM
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Belly,

Seriously take a deep breath. When have I ever accused you personally of being responsible for the problems in Aboriginal communities? I haven't

What I have said is that a blanket shaming of every aboriginal in the Northern Territory is not helpful and is probably counter productive because you end up lumping the good in with the bad.

I have also said that concentrating solely on the Aboriginal offenders is just plain dumb, because there is ample evidence that at the very least they are being facilitated by white people (again NOT ACCUSING YOU OF ANYTHING).

If you want to debate real solutions then lets do it, and I am not doubting your passion or depth of feelings about this issue, however a level head is required to really fix the problems.
Posted by James Purser, Friday, 7 September 2007 10:38:30 AM
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'How would you feel if there was a law which made it OK for you to be discriminated against because of your race?'

The laws are because of the state of their communities, not their skin colour.

If the government found an area full of *white* Australian citizens, with identical problems, it would have every right to step in and do something.

The fact these citizens are white would mean *nothing*.
Why does it only *mean* something if the people are black?

Tom Calma (who works in the fields of "social justice" and "race discrimination". Uh-oh!) claims no consultation has occurred, but knows very well HREC has been consulting with Aboriginal communities for *years* about these problems.

Maybe these measures are hasty, but should we wait for the problems to get worse, because the bureacrats haven't got enough "data"?

Too bad for little Timmy, you can just keep getting raped by your uncle while an inquiry gathers *information*.

Unintended negative consequences? This is inevitable!
The outcome of any action is to some extent unpredictable.
Doing *nothing* produces unintended negative consequences.

The "dignity" of those affected by the measures?
Where's the dignity of the molested child? The drunk in the gutter?

The reason the government hasn't addressed this until it reached breaking point is precisely because people like Calma have attacked any previous attempts by government to "help" Aboriginals.

Stolen generation? More like "protected"!
"Steal" Timmy now!

kartiya jim, saying there's something wrong with Noel Pearson and Warren Mundine agreeing with whites is the most perverse example of upside-down inside-out racism I've ever heard!

To be genuinely "black" they must automatically disagree with "whites"?

Surely both men, being Aboriginal, are quite entitled to form any opinion they want about their own people.

FrankGol vaguely states "the intervention is really about something else".
"It goes further than ideology. But the evidence won't be clear for a while".

Just what sinister conspiracy is at hand, FrankGol?
Don't be shy.

It's Auschwitz, right? The final solution?

Of course, you won't say that. That would make you a *nutcase*.
Posted by Shockadelic, Friday, 7 September 2007 1:47:51 PM
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Shockadelic ,

As reported in the Australian on AUG 29 John Howard said at Hermannsberg that the Federal Government had a "SPECIAL AIM" with the Intervention.

That "their future can only be as part of the Mainstream of the Australian Community ".

He then went on to say that "Unless they can get a share of the Bounty of this great and prosperous country, their future will be bleak ".

All I can say is that it appears that John Howard, after refusing to Apologise to Indigenous People for past Injustices and the Theft of the Country that sustained them for Thousands of years , now expects them to buy it back and join in with the White Invaders to "get a share of the bounty ".
Posted by kartiya jim, Friday, 7 September 2007 7:31:26 PM
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I've got it Shocker.

You've got me pegged. I'm really one of those nutters who believes that Auschwitz was really in Alice Springs. Damn! You've sprung me.

Keep punching Shocker, I''m holding your head at arm's length in my extended arm while you swing wildly with both arms. But I'll have to let go soon and then you'll get me. God, I'm petrified.

Your shout! It's nearly closing time.
Posted by FrankGol, Friday, 7 September 2007 8:07:33 PM
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I'll get you alright, FrankGol.

I'm your karmic "reward".
Posted by Shockadelic, Friday, 7 September 2007 10:31:13 PM
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James I have no need to take a breath am totally in control of my thoughts.
I find no true fault with you or your posts however Jim acts talks and appears to think like a racist.
That blind stolen land stolen generation racist talk ignores the fact every country in this world has been invaded.
Like us whites blood from all over the world runs in many Aboriginal veins.
Some times much more white blood than black, but its cash time, no money in being mainstream.
No money in being part of the whole, while we seek multiculturalism for most it is racist to want better for Aboriginals?
And just maybe that better life true share Howard offered ,Noel Pearson wants, would allowed better education to act as a tool to save Aboriginal culture. stop child neglect and rape.
Aboriginals, some who post here, must stop the rot in their own community's not blame white Australia for caring more than they do.
Those who rape, those who steal money meant for these people include whites but no way the numbers are equal to those who are the community.
Uneducated blindly stupid racism is just as evil if from a minority as any other.
I say now I am sorry for the truly stolen, but even more sorry some Aboriginals are the problem never the solution.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 8 September 2007 5:44:37 AM
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Belly ,
Nup, you are wrong .
There is nothing Racist about my last post .

If you think it is Racist to ask for an Apology,ie. saying Sorry , to stick up for Indigenous Australians and demand they get a "Fair GO" , it is you that has a big problem .
Posted by kartiya jim, Monday, 10 September 2007 8:16:40 AM
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A lot of the discussion here is on who's fault it is, the actions that have been taken by the government and what more or less should be done.

Firstly, I don't think it is fair to blame white people for what has happened with Aborigines over the century. However, we have to establish that the position our indigenous Australians were in to "begin with", when they start their lives as children, are far worse than what mainstream society begins with. As a result of dysfuntionality within families and communities, abuse, violence, addiction etc. occurs. It is a problem, and it is a major problem within the Northern Territory. Something needs to be done.

However, having said that, the Northern Territory Emergency Response Bills are a complete waste of time and money - not to mention they undermine some of the most fundamental notions of human rights and freedoms.

The intention of this act is good and indeed something needs to be done. But its method of attempting to achieve its aim is not. By imposing restrictions and limitations on the freedom of our indigenous Australians, does not at all solve anything. All it brings is a reminiscence of a past we would like to forget. Control of lives and welfare, but not creating awareness and education, simply brews rebellion and violence. It may do more harm than good. Wasn't the stolen generation policy, introduced to essentially protect the Aborigines from dying out? At least that was one policy consideration. The emergency response laws do nothing to fix the problem of alcohol, pornography, child abuse. Because you do not solve a social problem through oppression. You solve these through education and awareness, giving of a brighter future for the whole community. By simply making the "conduct" of what happens in the Northern Territory "illegal" does not solve anything. Instead, by taking these away, it causes even more rebellion and violence.

Above the fact that the laws don't solve the underlying problems that occur and fails to follow the Anderson Wild Report, they are against universal human rights and freedoms.
Posted by C.W, Thursday, 13 September 2007 3:42:00 PM
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The N.T 'Invasion', occurred because of a powerful black voice. The powerful black voice of the Aboriginal Victim Industry. For many years these people and their supporters have been blaming the commonwealth government for our problems and demanding they do something. An indication of their own failings and inadequacies. They themselves must take responsibility for the 'Invasion' and the social circumstances that justified it. Board Members of the “A.V.I” Pat Dodson, and 'he who would be our saviour' Tom Calma, should apologize and get out of the debate. For further info www.whitc.info
Posted by ALB, Saturday, 22 September 2007 2:05:37 PM
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