The funny thing about the private v public school debate is that sp few people question the assumption that private schools provide a better education and get better results.

Private schools do tend to be better at producing a finished product - by getting rid of any students that don't fit the image, by coaching their students to pass exams often at the expense of getting a real education, and by their emphasis on external appearances (nice, neat uniforms and the veneer of politeness). It's all part of the marketing spin.

A "good private school education" can make an average student seem confident and able. Just don't send the creative kids, the intelligent ones who see through the veneer and ask awkward questions, or the child who is likely to be bullied anywhere near them. Those children are much safer and will get a far better education in an imperfect state school.

Not true counter. The creative kid, the gifted kid will be far better looked after in the Private schools as they are more highly regarded, treated with more respect and they dont have to spend thier whole time proving that they are smart or worthy of being treated fairly and with respect.

I know this from experience.

Education - Keeping them HOnest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/
Our children deserve better

real (Friday, 3 August 2007 12:11:28 AM),

Left wing teachers and their unions do not have schools “by the throat”. Evidence of the dramatic decline in teacher pay and conditions shows how powerless the teacher unions are. That an academic is left wing is not proof that the idea is. An engineer can be left wing, but that doesn’t mean the bridges are. “Whole language” is not left wing – it’s just a way of teaching reading that isn’t very effective. There is no “anti-Australian Left wing ideological curriculum, implemented by Left wing ( not all ) teachers”. Grammar has never been banned from schools – by the Left, by the Right or by anyone else. I taught it every year from 1974 to 2007, and so did the other English teachers in my schools.

Labor is promising a national curriculum, in plain English, with real subjects. The Labor state and territory governments support the return of real subjects such as history. The state Labor Government of NSW never dropped it, while the Liberals in Victoria were the ones who brought in SOSE and it is the Victorian Labor Government which dumped SOSE and has led the other states and territories in a return to academic disciplines.

Your account of what actually happens in schools is a fantasy. There is no conspiracy. Teachers get on with their jobs of teaching children as best they can in a massively under-funded “system” while being abused by people like you and being overburdened with the changing demands of governments of all persuasions.

(Readers can see http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5080 for some quotations of this despicable abuse of teachers by the Right and http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5225 for a list of the damaging things done to Victorian education by the Right.)

Jolanda

In the school I work in now the parents are wonderfully supportive.

However, I have worked in a school where some of the parents were unsupportive and quite a hinderance. Of course, their children were the disruptive students.

If a parent was contacted about their child's behaviour, they would become abusive towards the teacher rather than support the teacher by demanding their child behave in class.

The classroom behaviour would not be resolved, and the parent had effectively given their child permission to be disrespectful towards the teacher and continue undermining the learning environment. That's bullying.

Now you and I Jolanda would be horrified if our child/ren were disrupting classroom learning. We expect our children to be respectful. But some parents are nothing more than bogans, and that's what they role model to their children. And frequently you will get a grouping of bogan parents in the same suburb, so they'll spread rumours and gang up on a teacher rather than accept that possibly their friend's child is not such a nice little boy or girl after all.

These parents are usually very young, and not well educated. They are the same type of parents who abuse referees at their children's footy matches.

A principal may be ineffective in that they don't support the teacher. Rather, they might blame the teacher to stay on the good side of the parents, and avoid the same sort of harassment.

There are schools out there that don't support their teachers. I know a male teacher who was so harassed by students and so unsupported by the principal that he was literally driven from the school.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6179#89226

Jolanda, maybe you have found one school that does what you want - or seems to for the time being.

Private schools often include gifted education (however they choose to define it) in their marketing, and they give scholarships based on ability and claim the credit if those students excel. After all, they are businesses under pressure to get good results to boost their reputation and sell their services to more parents.

Good grades indicate how well the child fits the school more than they indicate ability or future success.

In my opinion, also based on experience, parents would be better off investing the money into their families, more resources, better holidays, parents able to spend more time with their children instead of having second jobs just to pay school fees.

There are good and bad teachers in both systems, good and bad parents in both, good, bad and troubled kids in both. But who is the judge of who is good and bad?

I think as a society we must fund a public school system adequately to give all children a chance. Society as well as the individual children will pay the price if we allow public school students to become an underclass. Parents are welcome to pay for some variation of private schooling for religious reasons or for the old school tie system but please look a bit more critically at the propaganda of the private school system and those who claim it is superior.

Liz. I accept that there are some parents out there who are very unreasonable when it comes to their children and who are very rude and disrespectful. I also believe that there are unreasonable teachers and unreasonable Principals and even some very rude and unreasonable referees. In every group and in every culture there is good and bad. The trick is to identify those who are failing in their duty of care and make them answer and be held accountable. Otherwise why would they change?

I know my husband had to put up with one of ‘those parents with a brat kid’ whilst coaching our son’s then under 9 soccer team. The kid was so disrespectful and rude. He was a bully. He mucked things up for everybody. His parents thought that their son was a king and a saint and their sons behaviour was everybody’s fault but their own or their sons. They tried to blame my husband because their son kept acting up by attacking my husbands ability to discipline the kids and coach. They challenged him in front of all the other parents and the kids after a game. My husband told the parents that he was there to teach their son soccer and that the discipline part was their job and they should discipline their son before they bring their son to him.

We live in a world where there are all sorts of people. That society tolerates and accepts such poor standards and such bad behaviour in general is what is a shame.