Is anyone else sick of these vacuous, evidence-free posts claiming the educational sky is falling in now that 'the school system has been taken over' by all-powerful 'left wing socialism'? First The Age, then the ABC, the universities and now the school system.

Is there no end to the socialists' hunger for power and their capacity for victory?

Yet I thought John Howard was claiming victory in the 'culture wars'.

If some of the posts today are an indicator of the standard of education they achieved in the good old days, I'd say the schools were 'stuffed up' (to use mickijo's term) well before 'left wing socialism' struck.

Let's have either some evidence or some reasonable argument. Enough of the wild assertions.

The one most significant factor delineating the difference between the private and public schools is the level of control parents have over their children's education.

In private schools teachers and administrators are paid and controlled out of the parents purse. The public system is controlled from faraway by out of touch state government bureaucracies.

Parents and local administrators need to be able to manage their local schools to the benefit of the children - not the whims of the vote buyers.This means the ability to hire and fire teachers and their assistants and to set the incentives, awards and pay scales for the local district.

I dont have a problem with our Government providing funding for all children no matter what school they choose to go to be it private or public. Every child should be entitled to the value of their education and it should go to their school of choice. If they want to pay more for a swimming pool and extras then that again is the parents choice.

My concern is that the Public system has been permitted to be run down for so many years. This has been a direct result of a process and culture of covering up and denying all failures and difficuties in relation to all aspects pertaining to the education of our children and the maintenance of our schools. This idea that if you pretend things are grand then that will mean that they are has fallen through. This attitude has ensured that public education has gone backwards fast as issues never get resolved or fixed. This situation needs to be addressed first.

The standards of the public system need to be raised. That not only takes money - it takes a change of culture and attitude.

Education - Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/
Our children deserve better

It is noteworthy that in every public debate of note in Australia these days, one group of people seek to discuss the issues on their merits while another seeks to widen it into an ideological battle of "left vs right".

Such is the case with the funding of public education. The "right", for want of a better word, is gradually strangling the public education system of funds as a kind of payback in the culture wars.

Anyone who expresses legitimate concerns about the resulting inequities (in which parents feel they have little choice by to pay exorbitant fees to already highly subsidised private schools) is condemned as a "lefty socialist".

Such is the level of infantile name-calling in our public debates. No-one is expressing concern for our children, who have no stake in Howard's culture wars and all of whom have the right in our liberal democracy to a fully funded, high quality state education.

The knee-jerk, ideological reactions of some here to Jane Caro's sensible, well considered article fail to respond to her central point - the lack of equity involved in the state subsidising private schools, who already extract hefty fees from parents.

And I do not buy the despicable argument that "thugs" reside only in public schools. There are plenty of examples of bullying and anti-social behaviour in even the best private schools.

There is not to deny there are not many good private schools, just as there are some excellent public schools.

But can we PLEASE debate these issues on their merits and not according to the John Howard wedge politics manual??

Ena,

What do you mean that "most church schools in the UK are fully integrated into the state system?" I would be shocked if that was the case for Catholic schools ..... after all, they run according to Catholic curricula. This being so then Catholic schools at least are not fully integrated into the state system which is, after all,a moribund, politically-correct and a whisker away from being a form of institutionalised child abuse.There are, of course, government requirements, as there are in Australia. When it comes to Australia it is obvious that, by private, you exclude (thankfully) the Catholic parish school system, the largest non-government sector.Our local Catholic school does not pick and choose (many non-Catholics) but, if it closed, then there's no way that the local state school could take in nearly 400 kids! So, the state school would have to pick and choose. Public schools are STATE government responsibilities. Most state government funding, at least in Qld, goes to state schools. I wouldn't be surprised if that's also the case in other states. Your argument does not seem to be with equal funding but with, as you put it, the fact that: (1) the non-state sector can pick and choose, and (2) it is not required to accept all the obligations that state schools accept (whatever they are).

Chris C
It is difficult to imagine how many schools could spend even more money.

I have seen schools that would be the equal to a 4 star tourist resort. They are definitely above 3 star.

My old high school has air-conditioning in every room. In my time not one room was air conditioned. There is shade cloth and landscaped gardens right throughout the school. In my time there was no shade cloth anywhere, the parade ground was sand, and not one shrub was growing in the school.

There are over 200 computers in the school. In my time you had to bring along your own slide rule. The school has its own shade covered swimming pool. In my time you had to walk 1 mile to the town pool, and then walk one mile back, and most of the swimming lessons were taken up with walking.

They have everything from rock climbing equipment to in-house video equipment for use by the students, to a 30 piece marching band with all instruments being provided by the school. In my time the only musical instrument in the whole school was a single piano in the main hall. The school even has its own coffee shop run by the students. In my time you were lucky to get tomato sauce on your hot pie.

In grades 11 and 12, the math class sizes are now down to 10 students. In my time, the size of the class depended on how many student desks they could squash into a room.

But this is not a private school charging $20,000 per year. This is the local high school being run by the QLD government.

Instead of arguement on how much money the private schools are getting or the state schools are getting, it should be determined what are the basic essentials necessary for any student anywhere to receive an adequate education.

Priority money is then spent on the schools that don’t have those essentials.

Also not surprisingly, the current students are not getting higher marks then my generation.

In fact, the marks have declined.