Excellent points West.

Kieran’s playing semantic games and trying to tune in with “the whole cosmic vibe of the thing" while refusing to engage the clear summary by Davsab. Kieran replies with nonsensical diversions. Kieran wants to debate the original cause of everything. I’ll try.

1. Changing incoming solar radiation… the original cause? Well, once upon a time there was a Big Bang, and eventually matter formed, and gas clouds, and then gravity kicked in and gas clouds collapsed forming stars. Some of these stars became old and tired and went supernova, creating many elements we need to sustain life. Then eventually there was a solar system where one planet collided with another. This event was called the “Big Whack” and left serious wobbles in the surviving planet. These wobbles affected how much solar radiation the planet received in 100 year cycles.

2. Intelligent life arose on that planet and called it “earth”. The earth was blessed with clouds, which of course solar heat originally created through evaporation, but the clouds in turn became another climate-cause, that is, a change in albedo bouncing heat back. There were also these continental plates zooming around all over the place on geological time scales, and boy did they change the climate depending on their position on the globe! This is caused by the internal heat of the earth, which is itself caused by radioactive decay. Continents crashing and tearing apart caused periods of intense volcanism now and then, spiking CO2 through the roof and causing massive dieoffs as the ocean became anoxic. But these settled down and…

3. Intelligent life decided to industrialize by burning huge quantities of “buried sunlight” in the oil, gas, and coal stored away when the oceans were anoxic — and in a small but significant way threatened to repeat the huge releases of CO2 from the earlier super-volcanism periods. Some of these intelligent life forms noticed this, but many dangerous deniers said “bah humbug”. Causes explained, except the cause for perpetual denial and stubbornness.

"The temperatures of Southern Hemisphere are warmer and a little more slow to change than the Northern Hemisphere because the Southern Hemisphere is predominantly ocean and the Northern Hemisphere has most of the land mass."
Oh my, this sounds like a climate lag...Eclipse Now doesn't believe in those. To use his words "confused me by suggesting that it could be delayed by decades. What, did "Biiirdman!" collect it and release it later or something?"

"The climate has not cooled at all these last years have been the hottest globally."
Well it certainly hasn't warmed either. Depending on whose temperature analyses you believe global temperatures are either flat-lining or falling slightly. Southern Hemisphere temperatures are definitely falling, so using your "predominantly ocean" theory, this must mean that the southern oceans are cooling? Nothing to worry about then?
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/diagnostics/hemispheric/southern/

"Some industrial gases actually can feeze local areas."
Are they the ones that Dr. Freeze uses against Batman?

"Lead from petrol up until the 1970's and asbestos will continue to kill us for hundreds of generations to come."
Thats a looooonnng time and a little unlikely. Sure pollution should be addressed, CO2 can hardly be classified alongside lead and asbestos considering we breathe out CO2 at a concentration of 4500ppm. If pollution is killing us all why are our lifespans lengthening?

Alzo, you’ve completely and utterly misrepresented my meaning, and are being a little slippery now in your argument style because the facts are going against you.

To be blunt: I do believe in delayed climate mechanisms — and you know it. You recently scolded me for one of the delay mechanisms when you said… “Between 1940 and 1975 global temperatures dropped while CO2 was really being pumped into the atmosphere. Faced with this divergence the hysterics came up with "global dimming" and "it would be whole lot warmer if wasn't for this cooling thing".

Global Dimming is now fairly mainstream climate science — you are the one denying a perfectly acceptable delaying mechanism — yet I see all sorts of causal effects that have basically confirmed the hypothesis. Global Dimming has been masking and delaying the true effects of Global Warming. But you don’t believe in any of this stuff. It’s too “normal”, part of the “Great Global Warming Swindle” that has been perpetuated on the gullible public and international scientific community by some kind of “Men in Black” Uber-conspiracy that can deceive every independent scientific climatologist so that they can’t publish an acceptable peer reviewed paper.

But I don’t believe in “delaying mechanisms” for solar activity IF the hypothesis is that climate is mainly driven by the sun.

YOU are the one trying to argue that Durkin is right and it’s all down to the sun, and so as the protagonist of a new theory, YOU are the one responsible for explaining how the “solar effects” are delayed without resorting to certain atmospheric effects — because that might back up OUR claim that atmospheric changes can affect climate!

The reality is that the sun’s output is remarkably consistent and even the 11 year cycle only results in a tiny variation of the energy received on earth, and hardly registers with our climate system.

Finally, I think you meant 450 ppm, as 4500 would have cooked our planet beyond even the super-greenhouse effect and anoxic oceans described on the ABC’s documentary “Crude”.
http://abc.net.au/science/crude/

EclipseNow, I must say you are an excitable, entertaining, funny girl.

The big bang alpha/omega idea that you support, is another worshipped religion with its fingers of teddy (god) pointing to Earth, because it interprets everything as if we are the centre of the universe. It is a sexy hypothesis based on the will to believe rather than its opposite ..... the will to find out. Its worship of finite universal causality is not about love of forensic evidence because worship can only misinterpret or ignore or deliberately distort evidence. The fact is that Big Bang cosmology has failed to anticipate any landmark discoveries because it is plainly illogical. Nothing cannot be the cause of something if there ever was such a thing as nothing which is impossible anyway. The BB only exists through its powerful priest class and intellectual dishonesty, is without evidence and obviously the greatest embarrassment of 20th century science.

I'm concerned that the global warming alarmists have a similar arrogant, distorted position.

When attempting to understand solar/cosmic influences on earth's climate, remember that the interaction with our planet is in a wide variety of complex ways and almost certainly that all these factors are influencing our lovely planet, even though we don't fully understand how. But my thoughts on this are not so alarmist because for one major reason ..... our earth and atmosphere are simply not expected to be in thermodynamic equilibrium with solar/cosmic influences. This longer time frame to adapt, points more to a stronger cooling effect when it does happen. To put it another way, (cheeky me), we could be right now in a sharply cooling phase were it not for increased greenhouse gases due to solar and very minimally to human input. We may also then exclaim thank goodness for that.

Ignoring the meat of the global warming issue.

We all emit greenhouse gases simply by breathing - one kilogram of carbon dioxide a day, on average, per person. Since there are six billion of us, we collectively emit more than two trillion kilograms of carbon dioxide a year. Scientists don't hold these emissions against us. What public policy options, after all, exist? Breath control?

All animals emit greenhouse gases and by comparison, humans are relatively restrained respirators. The planet's livestock animals alone, for example, breathe out three billion tonnes of CO{-2} a year. Livestock, indeed, emit more GHG into the atmosphere than all of the cars, freight trucks, railways, airplanes and container ships in the entire world.

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