Nope Al, do your homework. The shape of something can even happen
in Madame Tussauds, doesent mean its a human. At week 12 there is
no functioning and developed brain, just lots of dividing cells.
Its not a person, end of story.

You have no idea why a man leaves, or a woman leaves a marriage.
Lots of things can come into play. Some people are better court
actors then others, etc. Why are you tying up money with blame?
They are separate issues. Marriage is not a business and it should not be. The fact that no more private investigators are hired and
no more dirt upon dirt is aired in court, is a positive thing IMHO.

My dismissal of Fatima holds up completely. I've been here in dry heat, we've had a thunderstorm with rain, its all gone in a few minutes. No miracle at all. There is a thing in science which basically states that the greater the claim, the greater the evidence required. If you think there is a god, fine, let him provide the whole world with clear unquestioning evidence, its never happenened. But lots of gullible and deluded people are common.
Go to any mental asylum and you have 3-4 new versions of Jesus a day...

What I am saying is either let nature take its course or don't.
If you interfere with nature to preserve life as we do, ok. Then
accept that we also interfere with nature regards pregnancy etc.

I accept the laws of nature. I accept how there is a balance.
If we interfere in one sphere, we should also interfere in the other, or the whole thing is out of balance. If you understand biology a bit, you'll also understand how that will eventually lead to the collapse of humanity in the end. I also understand that you are not a biologist and believe in a gods plan etc, so its harder
to discuss these points.

To all posters, and Graham and all OLO Directors and staff, have a safe, happy and relaxing Christmas. Maybe we'll box on in 2006.

Yabby, Give the kid a chance! You can't expect his/her brain to be fully functioning at 12 weks. But is it is developing, and has divided into the three sections it will have as an adult. We are talking about a tiny human life, programmed to grow into an adult human over a period of years. What right have you or anyone to cut short that process and deny completion of that program? If you can't see the difference between this and a Madam Tassaud waxwork, you are no biologist yourself.

Divorce: If your wife left you with a couple of childen to move in with another man, would you be happy to sell the home etc and split it 50-50 with her? Then have to find alternative accommodation and rear the kids alone? I doubt it.

Fatima: It wasn't just a sudden thunderstorm as you describe. It had been pouring for hours, and the ground and people's clothes were saturated.
The Miracle only lasted a matter of minutes. This sudden drying of the ground and clothes can't be explained in natural terms. The atheists like yourself who came to jeer were just as impressed as everyone else, maybe more so. You say it was a delusion. Who could delude 70,000 people at once, including these sceptics? I mentioned earlier that it was only seen in the local region. This extended to about 25 miles away, which makes delusion even more unlikely.

Interfering with Nature: There is a great difference between interfering to save a life and interfering to take a life. No need to have a Biology Degree to see that By the way, do you actually have a Degree in Biology?

Al its not for me to do anything. Most women could create about 400 little human organisms in their lifetime, fact is they can't keep them all. Raising kids is more then having them. They need to be fed and clothed for 20 years, an education provided etc. So women should decide when and how many of the 400 they want to keep and raise.
All could be cute...

This whole nonsense comes from Catholic dogma, that because God killed Onan for wasting little sperms... sheesh... are they holy too?

Divorce: I actually put a submission to a Royal Commission years ago, that on divorce all jointly accumulated assets should be split 50/50. The non custodial parent should then pay alimony.

Fatima: No doubt the town has made a fortune from all this, as the village of Loch Ness has made a fortune from Nessie. All the villagers of Loch Ness will tell you that Nessie is real...
Al you really need to learn about being skeptical a little more.

Nature is nature Al. If you don't interfere one way because you claims its gods law, then you have to be consistant. Even smart guys like Paul Collins understand the sustainability problem, which the Catholic Church refuses to address.

Your memtion of "400 little organisms" is something of a red herring. You should be talking about "32" which is about the absolute number of pregnancies a woman is likely to have in a lifetime say from 15 to 45 years of age. which would b about 32.

Of course children need to be cared for until they can "leave the nest" and that includes the time they are growing in the mother's womb.

I still don't agree with you view on divorce, an even split between the parties regardless of circumstances, and far too many avoid paying child support and seem to get away with it.

True there is commercialism in Fatima. Where do you draw the line between visitors wanting a souvenier and exploitation? There is no comparison between "nessie" and the Miracle of The Sun on October 13, 1917. Only a handful of people claim to have seen Nessie. At Fatima, 70,000 people of various persuasions including militant atheists like yourself witnessed it, and their reports were even published in the Government newspapers O Seculo and O Dia, both anti-religious.

I am being consistent, on the side of preserving life, [born and unborn] by opposing abortion, and supporting medical treatments which will save lives. You are concerned with reducing the planet's population by abortion and letting people die for lack of treatment.

I haven't seen Paul Collins on TV for some time, but if he is a smart guy, it must have happened since he was last on TV at my place.

Read my post again Al. I say most women "could create 400 etc" which is true.You don't seem to understand the difference between an organism and a baby. 50'000 miscarriages a year occur, natures own abortion.
Ova not used, are flushed down the toilet... there goes potential life. Thats nature for you, exactly as Darwin stated.

If paying child support is a problem, that can be dealt with. They have certainly clamped down on that.

Fatima, alot of people have made alot of money out of Fatima, no need to add to that really.

I am concerned with the world being a sustainable place for future generations Al. What the Catholic Church is doing is trying to go against Natures laws, that is bound to fail. I am more concerned with concious pain and suffering here and now, by concious, thinking people and other species, then I am about what % of organisms get flushed down lifes toilet. According to the Catholics, every sperm
is holy. Rubbish!

Paul Collins has written a number of books. Your ABC shop should be able to provide you with a more thoughtful philosophy, then what the Vatican can provide.