Come on James. Silly question. Howard and Brough haven't actually thought about this at all as you know. The knees are still jerking and there has been no polls benefit so they have already lost interest.

Do you hear Howard, Brough or any government MP even mentioning this issue today, only a week or so after the invasion was announced?

No you don't. They don't and never expected to actually get to the stage of what to do with the kids. It was just a ploy, as usual, by Howard to find a Rudd wedge. He can't so these people will suffer the disinterest of another pointless government exercise. For votes which has failed.

What do I suggest? Simple James, get rid of Howard, the ALP and Coalition. Get rid of Party politics and have MP's actually represent their electorates. Remove Party loyalties altogether and then we may get some real interest in Australia and Australians. Including indigenous people who have long been ignoired whenever possible.

Hello James

I suspect this current 'national emergency' circus is as close as much of city Australia will get to any form of engagement with the previous sole occupants of the joint, albeit from the mediated comfort of indoors for most of us. One thing that has changed for us merry invaders however is the shape of the Trojan Horse to a more pleasing vehicle, although it seems that its equine visage of care is fracturing irreparably.

My personal bet is that this awful nonsense is a way of the Commonwealth finding a better solution to tricky mining leases and future nuclear waste dump sites. Why the fairly sound main opposition party hasn't spoken up about this is interesting although Parliament only had an afternoon to go when the 'national emergency response' was announced so maybe they're keeping their powder dry until the next sitting.

That said, I don't have any solutions to the real problems facing the down-trodden in this country. But then again, I don't pretend to. However, the more we discuss it, the less time we spend considering the real issues behind all this sudden urgency.

To close, the future happiness and well-being of Aboriginal Australians will take as long to figure out and get right as it did for us all to bugger it all up. With or without uranium mining it will take fifty elections, and, dare it be said, possibly a bit of love.

Simon Bedak
"Lorraine"
Wagga Wagga NSW 2650

The Little Children are Sacred report is a good starting point for both questions and answers. It is a long report as might be expected however it is very readable and you can short-cut to the recommendations. See here:

www.nt.gov.au/dcm/inquirysaac/pdf/bipacsa_final_report.pdf

The report is an excellent starting point for informed discussion - why reinvent the wheel?

What choice? Under this current government there has never been a choice. it's either johnnys way or no way.

What I would like to know is : if this is not a political plus land grab fiasco then when is the government going to march the army and federal police into Melbourne,Sydney,Brisbane etc?

Is the PM saying that child abuse only exsists in Aboriginal commnities? Do no non Indigenous peoples commit these things. But he says no in a previous media release. SO again when is the same process going to happen in these places?

My bet is that he will not enforce the same strategy currenty being handed out to the NT becasue the southern population (which is where the NT can never win because of numbers ie. you can fit the entire NT population in the MCG) would not stand for invasive medical examinations. Would they? My other bet is that he may do something similar but very controlled and less invasive so as not to upset too many of his voters.

Anyone who believes we are living in a democracy is not living in Australia. This is 'children overboard people, nothing short of.

Lastly, how low does a politician have to go to use child abuse as a tactic to ensure he wins another election?

PM, you are worse than Hitler as describe by Keating. At lest with Hitler you knew what his true intentions were about.

Wow! Howard Haters Having A Debate!Now that is a great help to frightened little kids. Not.
The most important thing that comes to mind is , remove not the children ,remove the abusers.
Secondly give the elder women enough power to monitor the situation and take heed of what they say.
Make sure that every Aboriginal child is educated from kindergarten to High school with teaching into nutrition,domestic skills and simple carpentry, plumbing.
The young people need to fill their days with creative pastimes, all young people need that.

The evidence that some people have no idea of the subject is already here in this thread.
The question is it only Aboriginal children who are assaulted is sad and proves my point.
Yes whites do it too, but not in the numbers it happens right across Australia in Aboriginal community's.
That is right, over all not as a percentage more Aboriginal children suffer than in the rest of the community.
The true right and true left never in their lives contributed to a result in this or any issue.
How can the real pain inflicted on these kids,, tonight and every night be just a debating point?
How can we ever find an end to this without a start?
Why did ALL past and present governments fail to start fixing it?

James makes some good points - social workers are generally unfairly maligned and their contributions underestimated. However I haven't noticed any scapegoating of them in the current debate - maybe I have just missed it.

There are some useful postings, especially Cornflower's (as usual) and Belly.

Pegasus carries on with predictable shallow cynicism. If "Howard and Brough haven't actually thought about this at all" they would not have been able to put together such a forceful response in such quick time.

Howard may be a lot of nasty things, but he is not completely stupid. If I was in his position, I too would be incredibly frustrated by the lack of real progress on sexual abuse, violence and substance abuse through the normal Commonwealth programs, bureaucratic processes and NGO activities, let alone the irresponsible negligence by the Northern Territory and states of their duties in relation to effective interventions or prevention.

I think attacking the problem vigorously, using concurrent actions in relation to the safety-security/policing sphere, education/school-attendance, health/substance-abuse, infrastructure/planning, governance arrangements, etc makes a lot of sense.

Even though I question some of the details and lack of logistical realism and lack of longterm plan, I can see the logic of the strategy and appreciate the theme of generating synergies, movement and a brand new scenario.

It is the right time to overturn the moribund political arrangements and question conventional wisdoms.

Pegasus, Brough has been mentioning this issue today (it is absurd to call the initiative "an invasion").

They are now grappling with the detail of "what to do with the kids". It may have been a Rudd wedge, but it is not just that.

Simon mistakenly refers to "this current 'national emergency' circus", as though there is nothing immediate and serious that has to be dealt with at the national level.

Simon, weeping about the past is not going to get us anywhere, nor will entertaining obsessions about nuclear waste dump sites.

However I can agree with you that "the more we discuss it, the less time we spend considering the real issues behind all this sudden urgency."

TOPENDA brings some unfortunate prejudices to the debate.

This silly idea that the Feds shouldn't take action in the NT unless they also act everywhere else in the same way at the same time hardly bears consideration.

Putting aside less than 1% of Indigenous land (on which the community towns/houses are located) for the purpose of providing fair allocation of housing, sound planning and infrastructure development (worth hundreds of millions of dollars) for 5 years is NOT a land grab - compensation to traditional owners is guaranteed. It is a generous investment in the future of the mass of the residents, very few of whom are traditional owners of the land on which the communities are located.

Howard will not (and should not) "march the army and federal police into Melbourne,Sydney,Brisbane etc", because he should try to force the states, with all their resources and responsibilities (compared to the limited resources and responsibilities of the NT Govt), to take up these challenges. He is offering to help the states in this, via partnerships.

The PM is obviously and demonstrably not "saying that child abuse only exists in Aboriginal communities" or that "no non-Indigenous peoples commit these things".

You forget to note that the Commonwealth still retains particular legal responsibilities (and liabilities) in the NT.

This is not "children overboard" - it is more akin to efforts to assist seriously endangered people in the firing lines of high-powered guns (after Port Arthur) and Indonesian and Solomon militia gangs, or efforts to assist the Acehenese after the tsunami.

Remember, not all of Howard's actions have been irretrievably evil.

TOPENDA
I suggest that:
a) No matter who we vote for, (of ALL parties) we end up with a 'politician' in parliament.
b) You seem to be suggesting that as long as we get RID of Howard and company, we will suddenly be blessed with enlightened, selfless, caring and wise government ? :) (cough, choke, splutter)
c) If labor or others get in, it will just be a different set of 'consultants' (of the right political flavor) who benefit.

Seeking to portray the 'lets root out the evil of child abuse' as a "land grab" is... very malicious. The ONLY reference to 'land' I've noticed in the media is that individuals will have title rather than communities. This makes them no different from other Australians (gee.. do I sound like Pauline here ? :) wow..EQUALITY.. shock horror.

Those who wish to 'contain' Indigenous communities as 'separate' are in fact guilty of racial and cultural APARTHIED.

SIMON of WAGGA2....
"That said, I don't have any solutions to the real problems facing the down-trodden in this country."

You also mentioned 'a bit of love'.... well... I also recommend that.
But perhaps a 'lot' would be better than a little.

"By this all men will know that you are my disciples..that you have love, one for another" (John 13:35)

Sexual abuse is utterly abhorrent and absolutely not to be tolerated. Racial isolation is also abhorrent and not to be tolerated.
The first issue is getting plenty of media coverage and expressions of concern and alarm. I agree the perpetrators of the abuse need to be punished. It is no more approved of in indigenous communities than it is anywhere else.
The second issue however is seen by government detractors as a 'land grab'. This is nonsense. Unpopular though it may be to say so land rights is a form of reverse racism - apartheid if you like.
There needs to be a very different approach to indigenous affairs in Australia. Rather than isolating people in remote communities to try and preserve a culture and way of life that no longer exists we need to encourage participation in the 21st century.
The culture vultures who insist that cultural preservation overrides basic human rights do not live without basic amenities or access to health care, education, housing, employment etc etc.
It is never good to lose languages or ways of thinking or traditional stories but at least some of that can be retained because we are aware of the potential loss.

Dan F, thank you for your contributions to this debate. It's too easy to list the negatives of Howards response and thereby miss the positives that will come out of this. Your on the ground viewpoint echoes that of my friends who work in this field. (confirmed Howard haters).

They have become increasingly frustrated by govt. and indigenous inaction in this area, and conclude that any action is better than none.

Living in any society often necessitates some trade-offs between freedoms and rights, and our greater responsibilities to the group.eg The people of Cronulla had to put up with massive over-policing for months in the wake of the thuggery and rioting that took place there 18 months ago. And did so for the greater good.

Given the scale of the problems exposed in the LCAS report, and the lack of social and police action to curtail the abuses, the Feds. actions are a reasonable response. Increased policing to limit criminality in the short term is too obvious, and too direct for some to understand. Using the armed forces for logistical support is too practical for these people too.

Dan, are you aware of any progress in the area of stopping child sexual abuse in the remote communities as a result of the latest initiatives? Have there been arrests? Any way of knowing if the perpetrators have been scared off?

There is little or NO servicing infrastruture at community ground levels in rural isolated Australia.

We need a real DEVELOPMENT PLAN with the participation of Communities, to help rebuild and empower rural and isolated communities.

We need LONG-TERM Resources! NOT just more FUNDING ROUNDS. We need SOLID GROUND.

We need BASIC NEEDS and a Human Face put back into all forms of Government.

We need Communication - to improve our inter-relationships and inter-activity... in regional politics.

We need acceptance and change through community engagement.

http://www.miacat.com/

Thanks palimpsest.

I worked with Fred Hollows' Trachoma Program in the 70s. We had excellent assistance from the army in remote areas, similar to their logistical support now, and everybody was happy with it, just as most people in communities are happy to see them now.

As for evidence of progress in stopping child sexual abuse in communities as a result of the latest initiatives - it is too early to comment, although you can be sure that some perpetrators will have gone to ground, given the nature of the publicity.

Some people have spoken to the federal police about their concerns and allegations. I don't know of any resultant arrests yet.

I would hope that some men have given up their predatory behaviour in relation to young girls, but this will take sustained police action followed by community activities (to engender conformity to new norms and mores by many men) to consolidate over decades.

Miacat - I agree with all you say, but it's not enough.

As well as a solid longterm resourced DEVELOPMENT PLAN with community participation, to help rebuild and empower rural and isolated communities and meet basic needs (along with respect, communication, community engagement, acceptance and change) we need much more visionary leadership and fearless commitment in the Aboriginal community.

More Aboriginal people have to take responsibility, and exercise selfless leadership.

They will have to develop personal analysis of the problems and solutions, and engender group consciousness that accepts realities, relentlessly solves problems, develops new ways of socialising the young, and adapts social organisation and cultural beliefs.

This will have to include new ways of raising kids in the present circumstances, and adaptation of cultural beliefs and practices to the contemporary era, including respect for the new notions of basic universal human rights, such as the disavowal of violent payback and respect for the equality of women, gays and the frail.

Of course there are Aboriginal people already exercising this leadership and trying to do these things, but many more must join them in oder to meet the massive challenges that lie ahead of us.

Thanks Dan for your especially insightful comments on this issue. You have given me a lot to consider. I will however, somewhat weeplessly, state here that I will triple our annual donation to the Fred Hollows Foundation if, in say three years time from the date of this post, there has been no commencement of a fresh uranium mining lease, or, a waste facility upon an area of the land subject to the 'current national emergency circus'. To quote Kath from 'Kath & Kim' "I have a feeling in my waters.."

For the record, in principle, I have no problem with uranium mining nor the development of nuclear energy, although, I doubt this is the thread to completely uncan that jar of oddly florescent coloured radioactive worms.

That aside, I'd be happy to train any underprivileged person how to do cattle work or play-writing if they'd like to get in touch.

Yours sincerely

simon bedak
"Lorraine"
Wagga Wagga NSW 2650

Simon
I have no doubt that there will be more uranium mining and storage happening within the next few years too, although I don't look forward to this happening, as I think the ultimate costs and dangers may well be too great to justify our indulging ourselves with this development.

However, I find it more than difficult to imagine this occurring on the quite small areas of township land which Brough proposes to take over (via compulsory leases, with compensation) for the next five years.

Do you really think that there are undiscovered (or secretly discovered) uranium deposits under these town areas, or that Brough & Co would tear up towns to develop mines, when uranium is so plentiful elsewhere, and many Aboriginal people are quite willing to come to arrangements for its mining?

As for waste storage, I don't believe that any Australian politicians would be foolhardy enough to place a facility in the immediate vicinity (i.e. within the town boundaries) of a community. Besides which, many Aboriginal people are willing to lease more distant & isolated portions of their land for this or similar purposes anyway.

I fail to understand why Brough would need to cook up such a large, difficult, expensive and elaborate secret plot simply to achieve what his government can achieve by other means.

By the way, if you really want to help train people to be cattlepersons or dramatists, you could do worse than contacting the Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education through their website. They are always looking for trainers, teachers, tutors, lecturers, mentors etc.