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The Forum > Article Comments > Entitled to sympathy but not to an apology > Comments

Entitled to sympathy but not to an apology : Comments

By Brian Holden, published 6/7/2007

Nobody is to blame for the sad state of the Aboriginal people. It just happened.

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Neil
There is no objection to people being critical of the article and there is no disagreement re sympathy for the needs of aboriginal Australians. The objection is to the intemperate manner some of the critics make their points and the ad hominem attacks on anyone who is bold enough not to agree with the emotional postings of those attacking the article. Emotional postings add nothing to the debate nor does flinging accusations of people being League of Rights. The aboriginal peoples’ problems are not going to be solved unless there is a mature approach and mature discussion.
And you obviously didn’t understand the subtleties of the reference to Pauline Hansen. It was not approving her, far from it. The reason Pauline Hansen achieved such a large following was that the political correctness of the politicians and the Media stifled all discussion of community concerns about a number of issues, including immigration, for several years. Her prominence was a symptom of that suppression. This is a democracy after all and we are entitled to debate all these matters. If debate on those matters had not been stifled there would not have been so much concern and Pauline Hansen would never have been heard of.
As for there being “all this talk of political correctness” – I can only see two out of 16 postings mentioning it. Having said that, most people in the discussion so far have made reasoned and unemotional discussion points without using the intimidatory and immature tactic of attacking postings/posters with which they disagree or accusing people of being League of Rights.
But I suppose that in democracy, which can only exist because there are people who do stand against political correctness, there is room for emotional arguments and ad hominem attacks although what weight, if any, such arguments are given by is a matter of debate
Posted by Plaza-Toro, Friday, 6 July 2007 5:40:24 PM
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Gol raises some correct factors, which the author got wrong. Gol is not quibbling; he is correcting some errors made by the author, which are just untrue. We are not required to do anything about it on OLO nor are we required to offer answers but we could insist that the authors get their facts right.

I have another one to add Gol and that is the aquaculture fish-trapping system they used on the Georges River: South of Sydney. In this system of harvesting fish, they relied on tides and the stone walls filled with water and fish at high tide, as the tide went out, they put rocks "over the gates to filter the fish in the trap. This is clever technology.

Holden said:

"Our Indigenous people were described by the early navigators as being exceptionally primitive and, by deduction, stupid."

Wrong.

"These people may truly be said to be in the pure state of nature, and may appear to some to be the most wretched upon the earth; but in reality they are far happier than ... we Europeans." Captain Cook 1768

http://www.orac.net.au/~mhumphry/aborigin.html

Holden discredits our early navigators who were much more enlightened and incisive than he is on anthropology.

Holden said:

"By 1788, Indigenous Australians and Europeans had the same intellectual potential but their brains had some very different neural networking".

Wrong again. It had nothing to do with "neural networking" and everything to do with environmental and cultural difference.

Holden mentions Asians to further confuse the matter. What the...? Is this another racist notion? Most biological scientists of any merit have dismissed these racist notions of intelligence.

I agree with communicat again on the "sorry vs pity" thing: this racist rubbish is not helpful at all. We are not subscribing to pshycological blackmail, we could be attempting to communicate with Aboriginal people better than we are.

No one likes child abuse, if child abuse with alcohol is a problem, then authorities need sensible strategies that are not reactionary and that actually work.

It helps to get your facts right first.
Posted by saintfletcher, Friday, 6 July 2007 5:45:00 PM
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Where to start.....so much bad karma in Brian Holdens article.

His assertion that began with " Before any society can become complex..". I think Brian makes a mistake by identifying "society" with technology.

Understanding the many issues at question here begins with the recognition of the complexities of indigenous cultures, and the fact that their social system was/is every bit as complete as 'ours'.

Others have pointed out lots of other silliness in the article, but I'll make one observation in the authors favour. In para 1, Brian says " The Dreamtime also extended a powerful inhibition to experimentation." I can't really vouch for this statements validity, but am happy to suggest that any knowledge system, or any creation story that is not constantly changing to incorporate new observations and understandings is likely to inhibit progress.
Posted by palimpsest, Friday, 6 July 2007 8:41:53 PM
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'While acknowledging the inevitability of colonisation, the activists should also acknowledge that the Aborigines were fortunate that it was 18th century England which did the colonising. They would have been enslaved and worked to death if it had been 16th century Spain.'

Actually, they were enslaved and worked to death. The Woppaburra of Great Keppel were virtually annihilated. Below is a URL address for those who care to educate themselves.

http://www.api-network.com/main/index.php?apply=scholars&webpage=default&flexedit=&flex_password=&menu_label=&menuID=homely&menubox=&scholar=43
Posted by Liz, Saturday, 7 July 2007 1:59:53 AM
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At some point in time we all must be released from our collective histories and be allowed to get on with the job at hand. There is no point in recognizing for the thousandth time the historical circumstance of the arrival of the white man and the impact on the aboriginal people if that same collective white social influence is still 'trying to find ways to manage the aboriginal issue'. Australia must step back and allow the aboriginal to grow and develop by their own lights. Give them the tools to achieve their own success and stop holding the White, Anglo-Saxon, Christian mirror up to them to idealise. If we are to focus on blame there is plenty to go around. The he said she said interracial intrasocial arguing is not productive.
Posted by aqvarivs, Saturday, 7 July 2007 7:42:45 AM
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It's a bit much expecting the author to get his facts straight when the piece is clearly not a facts-based, organised series of arguments leading to a coherent conclusion.

It's a disconnected and unrelated collection of dot point bits of folk wisdom. None of his assertions are considered in any detail and as others here have pointed out, most of it is just plain wrong.

Good on poor old Holden for trying, but it's not exactly what you'd call an informed opinion.
Posted by chainsmoker, Saturday, 7 July 2007 9:34:24 AM
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