WOW.... :) CJ... I heard your call mate... and .."here I am"

so far

MOST MEANINGFUL TRUE TRUTHFUL COMMENT award goes to "MissLizzy" for clearly demonstrating the utter follow of Ponders argument. Well done!

MOST RIDICULOUS COMMENT OF THE DAY.. award goes to Gymfish and Ponder (for agreeing on the same things)
a) "Religion" causes all wars.
b) "Imaginary Gods"

Guys.. the most you can say is 'alleged' or.. 'I believe' but you cannot say with absolute certainty that God ..is not. (philosophically such a claim is untenable.)

I think your thought patterns are experiencing 'mental pediculosis' :)

ZIONISM/ PROPHECY... BIBLE...

COVENANT relationship. If one examines the terms of the covenant in Deuteromony, it becomes clear as follows:
a) Obedience = 'right to dwell in the land'
b) Disobedience = Exile, punishment.

IF.... "that" covenant has not been replaced by the NEW covenant in Christ (as per Jeremiah 31:30-36) then..the OLD covenant applies to this day.

PROBLEM #1 Most Jews are not 'obedient/religious/pious/theistic'
So..it might be argued that they have no divine right to the land on this basis. (see above b)Disobedience)

PROBLEM #2 Even though that covenant has been superceded by the New in Christ, there still "appears" to be a strong argument for God gathering in the Jews to the land again. This cannot be argued with great certainty in terms of the actual nature of events, so it is rather an open question as to 'how' and in what form.

CONCLUSION. I don't believe it can be argued that there is 'no' prophetic/Biblical basis for the current existence of Israel.

Israel is not perfect and it does well to survive in its current location. It is a beacon of knowledge and progress in an incredibly divided and backward area. The Shiite and Sunni struggle to be the first to reach total anarchy while Hezbollah and Fatah try and create true hell for each other.

The story of Jesus has more to do with the personification of sun worship, astrological symbols and ancient Egypt than most people will admit.

How many other preceding "Gods" or "demi-Gods" were born on December 25th and/or born of a virgin and/or rose from the dead after 3 days and/or performed miracles and/or used the symbols of bread and wine and/or whose coming was foretold by prophets and/or were crucified (or at least hung in trees) and/or converted water into wine and/or raised the dead and so on?

Try Attis, Alcides, Quirinus, Prometheus, Appolonius, Horus, Tammuz, Mithra, Krishna, Osiris, Zarathustra and Heracles just for a start.

Jesus himself said the end of his age/aeon/world (Pisces) would be marked by the "man with a pitcher of water" (Aquarius).

Moses was peeved by those who still worshipped a golden calf (Age of Taurus) when it was the Age of Aries and "the faithful" were correctly blowing rams horns.

Even the story of Moses in the bullrushes happened to somebody else beforehand. Something uncannily similar to the Ten Commandments and the 23rd Psalm had been recorded in Eqypt long beforehand.

The analogies go on and on and it has all been told and re-told before, long before Jesus appeared on the scene.

Therefore, how can any single group of individuals claim to know "the truth" and how can they claim knowledge of any sort of divine prophecy at the expense of everybody else?

If you tried hard enough, you could probably get as much meaningful prophecy out of the next Harry Potter book or by reading the entrails of a slaughtered goat.

Arrrgh.. "folly"

PONDER, your 'view' gave us Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, the Cultural revolution (30,000,000 victims), Stalins Purges (21,000,000 victims)
and so it goes, all withOUT "religion"...

Puh-lease RE-think the idea that 'all wars are caused by religion'.

Boazy, how many times must it be pointed out to you that Pol Pot, Mao etc did not (mis)govern in the name of religion but in pursuit of a political ideology.
On the other hand the Inquisition burned its victims in the name of Catholic orthodoxy.
Religion might not be the cause of all wars, as greed and anger are better candidates. but keep in mind that religion is adept at sublimating greed and anger into freedom and democracy.

Final answer to 'runner'
I have long realised the futility of trying to establish rational debate with a religious nut - however I cannot let your last epistle pass without comment.
So now an objection to Zionism, and the illegitimate state of Israel, necessarily implies support of that familiar obscenity - the suicide bombers. I have every respect for those willing to suffer and die for a just cause - but no respect whatsoever for the indiscriminate murder of innocent people in the name of 'Allah' - a figure as fictional as the 'God of Israel' and, it seems, equally indifferent to suffering. As to the bombers themselves, anyone sufficiently mentally unbalanced to believe that a selection of nubile virgins await them after they (together with a random selection of the 'infidel') have been blown to bits are probably better off dead - if not for themselves then for civilisation in general. It is almost as ridiculous as the notion of trans-substantiation, not to mention the 'rapture', and the 'second coming'. Come down from the cross,'runner', and for once actually consider the fundamental tenets of your 'faith' Take off the crown of thorns. You look ridiculous.