Right on C J Morgan!
Realitycheck, The trouble with your idea is that reputable studies show, as you are well aware, that the more ‘religious’ a society is, the more dysfunctional. The U.S.A. being a case in point, having the highest rates of teen pregnancies, abortions, murders, rapes, theft, grievous bodily harm, prison incarcerations, judicial murders.……. than any other so-called ‘western democratic’ country. Statistically, it is safer to live in Iraq than in the U.S.A. The most liveable and law-abiding region on planet earth is Europe, and that’s because they respect individuality, have non-discriminatory laws and do not permit religions to impose their supernatural insanities on everyone. They don’t stop crazies like Boaz and his ilk from believing whatever nonsense they like, but at least they don’t give them access to their children! Child abuse like that is what has caused and is causing the horrors of all theocracies, including the U.S.A. and, if we’re not careful, Australia.

I am not sure that you could attribute this 'dysfunction' to religion per se, although the NRA is probably now recognised with Scientology as a religion, but as for Europe being a safe place, I think that needs a 'for now' added to it as the likely outcome for the long term success of this situation is under threat of de-population and other factors (see http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/mind-this-gap-where-trouble-brews/2007/07/08/1183833338385.html )

Now just because the likes of Geo. W and others appear to function without reason, doesn't mean religious belief is without reason. I would argue that due to individual (self appointed) interpretation of Church teachings and scripture and the inconsistencies from such a worldview, the issues you have raised are non-christian practices.

Roman / Church law differs from reformation law in that the Church teaches people to avoid something, but, realises that many will fail. The black letter law has its purpose by exposing a position, pastoral application of the law then should see healing and reconciliation - not terminations - as the outcome.

Ginx

I think you are imagining that I said things that I didn’t say, or did you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

Please tell me, where did I refer to atheists in a derogatory manner? Please tell me, where did I elevate myself to being the arbiter of decency and moral values?

What I said in summary (if you can’t bother to read properly) was that people of faith and atheists need to learn to get along in a spirit of tolerance.

ybgirp

I suggest to you that Europe is such a wonderful place to live probably because of its strong Christian heritage, not in spite of it. Is it any wonder that people want to go there? The whole country of Turkey (though not wanting to become Christian) is wanting to go there.

And if America is as bad as you say, why are people queuing around the corner of American embassies around the world trying to get green cards to get in there?

Though, I still prefer Australia, which is kind of a mixture of somewhere between the two.

Ginx.. welcome to OLO.

umm..I have to concur with Mick V on his question about 'where' he elevated himself as you described. (supply quotes please)
I couldnt find it.

You said:

"as though we (Atheists) lack any moral fibre or standards."

For we 'God Botherers' the issue is not that Atheists don't have any moral fibre or standards. The issue is "which and who's" ?
Without an abiding anchor and foundation for our morality, we are subject to the loudest voices, the manipulation of opinion leaders, and economic interests who want to re-shape our education for the ultimate goal of making us more vigorous 'consumers'.

A visit to the local service station will quickly reveal the extent to which the 'MIUAUG' mob (Make_It_Up_As_U_Go) have sunk in order to extract more dollars from us. They know 'sex sells' and indeed that is what they are mostly selling. If they don't happen to be in a sex industry, then they try to 'connect' the product they are flogging 'to' sex.

The FM stations are generally at one with this push to dehumanize us and reduce us to "penis's with arms and legs attached, with a miniscule brain if at all"

All in all, we are in an abysmal mess morally. One does not need a MBA in 'moral high ground' nor in 'bone pointing' to say this, it's a simple fact. As Paul said of himself 'I am the chief of sinners'.. we don't point to social depravity with a "Oh God.. I'm so glad I'm not like THAT scumbag atheist over there, I goto Church regularly, I give, I help charities" etc.. nope.. Jesus condemned that attitude.
We have to thump our chests and utter "Lord...forgive ME.. a lousy sinner"

Mick V and David B;-thank-you both for responding to me.

Mick, cut the .rap on the 'wrong side of bed/not being able to read' thing. It's a tacky little dummy spit.

David, though you are a little more polite in your delivery, with all due respect, your response is entirely predictable.

Both; I have no intention of getting into the tedious exercise of cut/paste of segments of posts here.

I accept that you can both read (OK. Mick?), and as such you should be able to see with clarity that though the overt message is tolerance between Christian's (religion) and Atheist's, the covert message IS negative. You did not miss the opportunity to put down non-believers by elevating the principles of a Christian parent, and a Christian doctrine.

All well and good. Each to his own. I take exception though, to your need to state this. Good parenting is NOT the exclusive domain of the Christian. Don't even attempt to suggest to me that this was NOT a clear inference that the 'Godless' are not in your parental league.

Now Mick, you can waffle around with the need to make me understand that I am reading into your post what isn't there..etc,..etc. But can I suggest to you, that YOU read your post again, and perhaps indulge yourself a little less in a style that will inevitably be open to interpretations that you may not like??

Boazy: "We have to thump our chests and utter 'Lord...forgive ME.. a lousy sinner' "

I really hope that's not part of the Brethren RE classroom routine. On second thoughts, I'm sure most kids would find such a performance very entertaining - mine certainly would. But of course they're familiar with the idea of supernatural forces through fairy stories, books, movies and games, so I'm sure they'd relegate such an act to the well-established category of "pretend". That is, fictional stuff in stories and performance that aren't really true, but are fun to explore with one's imagination.

Unfortunately, in the case of extremists like Boazy's Brethren sect, one then has to explain that there are unfortunate adults out there who never outgrew their infantile credulity, and therefore firmly believe that the stories and myths are true. While of course people are entitled to their beliefs and fantasies, I personally don't want my kids and grandkids exposed to religious nutters in the absence of a trusted adult.

If parents want their kids subjected to religious indoctrination, they have the option of enrolling them in any of the various Christian schools that seem to be popping up like weeds all over the country. Or they can send them to good old Sunday school or whatever. I say it again: there is no place for religious indoctrination in State school. Education by qualified teachers about religions should be part of any general curriculum, but that is a very different thing to allowing representatives of outlandish religious sects into our schools in order to proselytise their faiths.

We wouldn't allow members of Hizb Ut-Tahrir into our schools to provide RE lessons, would we? Why then do we allow "Brethren" sect members to do so?

BTW, well said ybgirp and Ginx :)