Oh boy, have Daeron and ChristineMac got this one wrong!

Where Hirst is analytical and clear and fresh, they are stale, dogmatic and predictable.

To claim that "the central issue, [is] that John Howard has again created a human tragedy" is stupid. The issue existed just as much when Keating left office, and may have been worse then in some respects. What's new is that somebody has responded - even though belatedly - on a scale that is commensurate with the nature and urgency of the problem.

As for the glib claim that "today the inference is that aboriginals (unimportant voters) are paedophiles and bad uncaring parents" - Daeron you have your head buried deep in cement. The available statistics from remote Australian regions indicate a severe, intractable social crisis of proportions that dwarf the comparable figures from non-Indigenous Australia, and even pale those from comparable Indigenous groups internationally. Nobody can deal with this set of problems without also drawing attention to their prevalence. The thing to do is at the same time to work to help protect the responsible majority of Indigenous people from being crushed by the machinery which must be created to deal with the problems.

ChristineMac is anxious about “Big Brother –ism". The problem is that she seems to have no idea of (or else is not prepared to acknowledge) the degree of "Big Man-ism", male chauvinism, thuggery, predatory sexual activity towards young teenage girls and big bullying that goes on in most remote communities under the guise of self-determination, self-management, traditional law, individual autonomy and family/clan rights to nepotistic behaviour.

This actually has nothing to do with uranium, Christine, despite what your dogmas and prejudices tell you. As far as most people are concerned, even in the uranium-loving Howard Government and the despised Rudd-led ALP, this is about the neediest, most disadvantaged, most distressed and depressed people in Australia.

Dan while to some extent I agree with you it is important that we remember really what this is about. This is about getting John Howard elected, first and foremost. This problem has been growing steadily worse for decades now, there have been many 'children are sacred' reports, and while I agree that action is needed, let us not forget that it took an embattled Howard pre-election for it to happen. I truly hope the people won't forget that when it comes time to vote.

I agree that something drastic needs to be done. Establishing and maintaining law and order via police and military is an important first step. But we must remember that it is only that. A step. There is much work to be done if the wounds are to heal and if the Aboriginal people of this country are to be able to drag themselves - with help - out of the quagmire they have been in for a long time. This transcends left and right and transcends ideology - because the simple truth is that a lot from both sides is needed.

It is ridiculous to suggest that sending in the military to stomp on the 'evildoers' will do anything but create resentment and anger amongst Aboriginal populations. All it will do is ostracise them further and create a culture of hate. UNLESS it is coupled with REAL dialogue and real consultation. And Hirst outs himself as a dangerous idealogue himself with this line here:

"Anyone trained in social work and expert in the language and modes of consultation and ownership must be excluded. They've had their turn."

Please stop politicising this. Mr Hirst, Paternalism has also 'had its turn'....and it created this problem in the first place.

Law and order must be established first and foremost, and then it must be maintained - but beyond that there needs to be consultation and inclusion of the Aboriginal people and of the people who have spent their entire lives attempting to understand and address the issue if we have ANY hope of reaching a long term solution.

Sarah
Get over being so hateful of John Howard and be grateful that this problem is being addressed. You accuse Howard of being "privileged, arrogant, lacks a conscience" - sadly that's how you come across.

The history of white black relations in Australia moves in cycles. Before white man, community law ruled. Elders were repected because they were the custodians of the land and culture, passed on to the youth through passages of manhood and womanhood.

Then white missionaries came and denegrated Aboriginal creation stories. Dreaming gods made mistakes and had dialogue. Missionaries replaced them with a wrathful, vengeful God who must be feared to avoid hell in the next life.

Total control of Aboriginal communities saw whites take their black children away. Talking in language forbidden. However, even the missionaries saw the need for a reward system and introduced tobacco, flour and sugar as well as beer in return for what could be regarded as slave labour.

The missionaries sowed the seeds for poor diet, smoking, alcohol consuption and marginalisation and disconnectedness.

Some communities made progress when the missionaries left. They tapped into support networks in Australia, developing their vision with sometimes generous financial support and hard work.

The author states" 'Anyone trained in social work and expert in the language and modes of consultation and ownership must be excluded. They've had their turn.' How totally wrong you are.

Most of the dysfunctional communities have had no coherent financial and resource assistance including social workers, to get them out of their current rut. Trained social workers, respectful of language and dreaming stories have the best results in building pride. Ownership of land is critical to identity.

External expert help built on respect, can make economic and community development strategies work. Every community has people of integrity. They need to be recruited to become community leaders. Young people with talent need to be offered skills and career paths leading to positions of power and influence such as policing and nursing, managing local business and entertaining.

Will Howard's team provide the expert help dysfunctional communities desperately need? If imposing 'a pacific solution' is all that's on the table - then Howard's strategy is likely to be dropped soon after the next election.

Sarah101. I'm with you. Except you give Howard too many good qualities (jest).

Let's do some points here:

. he knows people cheating on the dole. Hirst is responsible for ensuring they do not get MY taxes. He is complicit in this theft. Yes uni costs the earth. Because of Howard,
. Work ethic? 100 people, houses, a store usually run by an old white pervert who charges the earth for small objects. No jobs, no hospital. What are they supposed to report for? And where? Go and have a look for Christ's sake,
. Freed from civil disabilities? On what planet? Not in Australia, the evidence of that is Howard's charge of the moron brigade. Why doesn't he do this in Redfern? No civil disabilities?,
. Finding the right people to stay in these communities for years on end. Highly trained professionals? Can't find them for cities fool. Towns like Temora are advertising for ONE doctor at $500,000 up front. Where are these hordes of people who will do this?,
. Finding the right people to take charge? Defies the definition of community wouldn't you think, Hirst? The army? Why don't we put them in your street too. The army in charge of a remote community like these. Do you know that many white men actually particpiate and develop this abuse in the first place. Because they are in charge and isolated from normal standards.

Just to add a last burst. How many of you think it's a good idea to build houses for these people?

Did you know one of their customs, most tribes, is to never use a dwelling where a relative has died? Did you? No you didn't. So what happens to the house? Abandoned, occupied by vagrants, drunks and abusers and destroyed.

You can't keep building houses for anybody untl they are trained to maintain it.

As to the custom mentioned, would you have them drop their customs to suit yours, or Howard's?

Are you one of the "non political" staffers hired by Howard early this year by the way? Sounds like it to me

'The missionaries sowed the seeds for poor diet, smoking, alcohol consuption and marginalisation and disconnectedness.'

Funny the many aborigines I speak to on a regular basis have different recollections to these. It is always convenient to twist the truth a little and re arrange history in order to win an arguement. In fact in many communities in WA the only people many of the indigneous respect are the Christians. Might be a difficult pill to swallow but it is true.

No one will dispute that the missionaries made mistakes along with Governments and every other organisation, however if it wasn't for missionary intervention many of the fine indigneous leaders such as Mr Pearson would never of obtained an education.