A very interesting analysis.

“But what would happen if the rules, or rather the lack of rules, in an Aboriginal community operated in our world?”

It would an almighty mess.

A strong rule of law is needed to improve everyone’s lives. Aboriginal people need to know that they are not being suppressed under the new approach but rather, they are coming under the same rules and level of policing as the rest of Australian society.

Just one point of disagreement:

“Anyone trained in social work and expert in the language and modes of consultation and ownership must be excluded. They've had their turn.”

No I think they still have a valuable part to play in effective communication.

John Hirst wrote: "in many Aboriginal communities, social organisation has completely broken down. The people have shown they are incapable of governing themselves. There is no point in consulting them about the creation of authority; authority has to be created for them. Their lives will then better match our own."

And yet John honestly believes paternalism is a myth? The 'Stolen generation' was not the product of people trying to conduct genocide or eliminate aboriginal cultures, it was the product of people who believed their actions would 'improve' the children to "better match our own" wishes.

But John is overlooking the central issue, that John Howard has again created a human tragedy - and again is using militant public display to win voter support.

Efforts to prevent the Tampa reaching an Australian port took only weeks, it has taken eleven years to create current indigenous "crisis"; the SAS were sent to control the Tampa situation, whereas now we are using State police to control "those" wicked aboriginal people. The Australian public was told the people on the Tampa were cue-jumpers and mad bombers; today the inference is that aboriginals (unimportant voters) are paedophiles and bad uncaring parents.

It is a shame if Australians have like Americans been dumb down to the level that they can no longer see these two issues for what they are.

For a person who has - in the past, at least - identified more with left of centre politics than with the conservative, John Hirst has always talked sense.

This article is no exception, and it says all that needs to be said about the Government's initiative to pull aboriginal people out of darkness and despair.

Too right, John Hirst – “paternalism” is not the word for the Howard government’s initiative and agenda for aborigines. “Big Brother –ism" is more to the point. While claiming to respond to the report Little Children are Sacred, Howard in fact ignored the recommendations of the report on education, and introduced compulsory comprehensive medical checks on indigenous children – which were not in the report. A Big-Brother-like heavy-handed approach has been taken by Howard – in a dramatic gesture,

And – what are the advantages to the government of this dramatic Big Brother gesture? Well, it certainly takes our attention away from the aborigines’ fight to preserve their land from uranium mining and nuclear waste dumping.

At the same time, by removing the access permits system, the way is opened up to subvert the Northern Territory’s Aboriginal Land Rights Act 1976, and so destroy the Aboriginal people the right to prevent mining on their land

Many areas where mining companies are itching to get to uranium, and where the government is itching to introduce nuclear waste dumping. – are those same areas marked for this Big Brother intervention. Christina Macpherson www.antinuclearaustralia.com

Daeron apears to be letting his bias get in the way of common sense. Yes Daeron the sexual abuse of children is 'wicked' can't you see wickedness unless it comes dressed as john howard? When I was 18 I, like many people, thought that throwing money at aboriginals was the solution. I assumed that money would be translated into real improvements. It is now 40 years later, and sadly all the money has not been the answer and neither has 'self rule' or the implementation of soft options by all sides of potitics. john howard is to be congratulated on his approach.

John Hurst, I feel that i must be a bit older than you, as i disagree with you on just everything you have said.
I am proud to say that i was a socialist in my younger days, i am not one now, i am an anarchist, and an antichrist.
Politicians were more intelligent and wrote their own speeches, in my day.
You have denigrated the Aboriginals, thinking that whites are superior and more human. The mould you are in typifies the Howard mould.
For your information alcohol abuse and the abuse of women and children knows no post code, it occurs in Bennelong as well as any other electorate in Australia. Are you nice to your partner?.
You come accross to me as one of Howard's red necks. I find that you have been indulged and had a privileged life so far.
I am the same age as Howard and i see him as old, privileged, boring, lacks intelligence, ignorant, arrogant, weak, a liar, lacks a conscience, and he is a war criminal, and like most war criminals he is a sociopath.
I dislike people like you, but i do not hate you, i am surprised that you have students. I would like to refer you to Bishop, Minister for education, for appraisal as to how much money you deserve.
All humans are equal, in my eyes, regardless of who or what they are. I regard a person black or white in the gutter, as your equal.
We humans are all vulnerable to ill health, we are not perfect, so it is better for you to be nice to people, who you think are below you.
I know this from my experience as a nurse for most of my working life, i also worked for some time as an ambulance officer. It is amazing what people learn after a life changing experience.
Please do not rubbish nurses.

Oh boy, have Daeron and ChristineMac got this one wrong!

Where Hirst is analytical and clear and fresh, they are stale, dogmatic and predictable.

To claim that "the central issue, [is] that John Howard has again created a human tragedy" is stupid. The issue existed just as much when Keating left office, and may have been worse then in some respects. What's new is that somebody has responded - even though belatedly - on a scale that is commensurate with the nature and urgency of the problem.

As for the glib claim that "today the inference is that aboriginals (unimportant voters) are paedophiles and bad uncaring parents" - Daeron you have your head buried deep in cement. The available statistics from remote Australian regions indicate a severe, intractable social crisis of proportions that dwarf the comparable figures from non-Indigenous Australia, and even pale those from comparable Indigenous groups internationally. Nobody can deal with this set of problems without also drawing attention to their prevalence. The thing to do is at the same time to work to help protect the responsible majority of Indigenous people from being crushed by the machinery which must be created to deal with the problems.

ChristineMac is anxious about “Big Brother –ism". The problem is that she seems to have no idea of (or else is not prepared to acknowledge) the degree of "Big Man-ism", male chauvinism, thuggery, predatory sexual activity towards young teenage girls and big bullying that goes on in most remote communities under the guise of self-determination, self-management, traditional law, individual autonomy and family/clan rights to nepotistic behaviour.

This actually has nothing to do with uranium, Christine, despite what your dogmas and prejudices tell you. As far as most people are concerned, even in the uranium-loving Howard Government and the despised Rudd-led ALP, this is about the neediest, most disadvantaged, most distressed and depressed people in Australia.

Dan while to some extent I agree with you it is important that we remember really what this is about. This is about getting John Howard elected, first and foremost. This problem has been growing steadily worse for decades now, there have been many 'children are sacred' reports, and while I agree that action is needed, let us not forget that it took an embattled Howard pre-election for it to happen. I truly hope the people won't forget that when it comes time to vote.

I agree that something drastic needs to be done. Establishing and maintaining law and order via police and military is an important first step. But we must remember that it is only that. A step. There is much work to be done if the wounds are to heal and if the Aboriginal people of this country are to be able to drag themselves - with help - out of the quagmire they have been in for a long time. This transcends left and right and transcends ideology - because the simple truth is that a lot from both sides is needed.

It is ridiculous to suggest that sending in the military to stomp on the 'evildoers' will do anything but create resentment and anger amongst Aboriginal populations. All it will do is ostracise them further and create a culture of hate. UNLESS it is coupled with REAL dialogue and real consultation. And Hirst outs himself as a dangerous idealogue himself with this line here:

"Anyone trained in social work and expert in the language and modes of consultation and ownership must be excluded. They've had their turn."

Please stop politicising this. Mr Hirst, Paternalism has also 'had its turn'....and it created this problem in the first place.

Law and order must be established first and foremost, and then it must be maintained - but beyond that there needs to be consultation and inclusion of the Aboriginal people and of the people who have spent their entire lives attempting to understand and address the issue if we have ANY hope of reaching a long term solution.

Sarah
Get over being so hateful of John Howard and be grateful that this problem is being addressed. You accuse Howard of being "privileged, arrogant, lacks a conscience" - sadly that's how you come across.

The history of white black relations in Australia moves in cycles. Before white man, community law ruled. Elders were repected because they were the custodians of the land and culture, passed on to the youth through passages of manhood and womanhood.

Then white missionaries came and denegrated Aboriginal creation stories. Dreaming gods made mistakes and had dialogue. Missionaries replaced them with a wrathful, vengeful God who must be feared to avoid hell in the next life.

Total control of Aboriginal communities saw whites take their black children away. Talking in language forbidden. However, even the missionaries saw the need for a reward system and introduced tobacco, flour and sugar as well as beer in return for what could be regarded as slave labour.

The missionaries sowed the seeds for poor diet, smoking, alcohol consuption and marginalisation and disconnectedness.

Some communities made progress when the missionaries left. They tapped into support networks in Australia, developing their vision with sometimes generous financial support and hard work.

The author states" 'Anyone trained in social work and expert in the language and modes of consultation and ownership must be excluded. They've had their turn.' How totally wrong you are.

Most of the dysfunctional communities have had no coherent financial and resource assistance including social workers, to get them out of their current rut. Trained social workers, respectful of language and dreaming stories have the best results in building pride. Ownership of land is critical to identity.

External expert help built on respect, can make economic and community development strategies work. Every community has people of integrity. They need to be recruited to become community leaders. Young people with talent need to be offered skills and career paths leading to positions of power and influence such as policing and nursing, managing local business and entertaining.

Will Howard's team provide the expert help dysfunctional communities desperately need? If imposing 'a pacific solution' is all that's on the table - then Howard's strategy is likely to be dropped soon after the next election.

Sarah101. I'm with you. Except you give Howard too many good qualities (jest).

Let's do some points here:

. he knows people cheating on the dole. Hirst is responsible for ensuring they do not get MY taxes. He is complicit in this theft. Yes uni costs the earth. Because of Howard,
. Work ethic? 100 people, houses, a store usually run by an old white pervert who charges the earth for small objects. No jobs, no hospital. What are they supposed to report for? And where? Go and have a look for Christ's sake,
. Freed from civil disabilities? On what planet? Not in Australia, the evidence of that is Howard's charge of the moron brigade. Why doesn't he do this in Redfern? No civil disabilities?,
. Finding the right people to stay in these communities for years on end. Highly trained professionals? Can't find them for cities fool. Towns like Temora are advertising for ONE doctor at $500,000 up front. Where are these hordes of people who will do this?,
. Finding the right people to take charge? Defies the definition of community wouldn't you think, Hirst? The army? Why don't we put them in your street too. The army in charge of a remote community like these. Do you know that many white men actually particpiate and develop this abuse in the first place. Because they are in charge and isolated from normal standards.

Just to add a last burst. How many of you think it's a good idea to build houses for these people?

Did you know one of their customs, most tribes, is to never use a dwelling where a relative has died? Did you? No you didn't. So what happens to the house? Abandoned, occupied by vagrants, drunks and abusers and destroyed.

You can't keep building houses for anybody untl they are trained to maintain it.

As to the custom mentioned, would you have them drop their customs to suit yours, or Howard's?

Are you one of the "non political" staffers hired by Howard early this year by the way? Sounds like it to me

'The missionaries sowed the seeds for poor diet, smoking, alcohol consuption and marginalisation and disconnectedness.'

Funny the many aborigines I speak to on a regular basis have different recollections to these. It is always convenient to twist the truth a little and re arrange history in order to win an arguement. In fact in many communities in WA the only people many of the indigneous respect are the Christians. Might be a difficult pill to swallow but it is true.

No one will dispute that the missionaries made mistakes along with Governments and every other organisation, however if it wasn't for missionary intervention many of the fine indigneous leaders such as Mr Pearson would never of obtained an education.

Patrimonalism and kin altruism are cultural constructs that pertain to ealier forms of socialisation, whether one's sixteenth ancestors were born into an Australian Aboriginal clan or a Scottish Celtic can, we now live in the twenty-first century.

We can respect and reinact past traditions, but that old familial collectivism has reached its used-by date. Most Scots realise this to be true. Too few indigeous Australians do. Being a traditional society, within the most advanced civilization in the History of History wont work.

Harry Triandis, a socio-anthropologist, who has studied acculturation notes, particularly with Hispanic Americans: A first generation needs to fully indwell in the host/dominant society, the second or third generation can then discover their roots and secondarily keep their treasured traditions alive.

The "invasion" of Australia has come and gone and the outcome clearly determined. It has happened.

Newly born aboriginals are born into Anglo-Western Australia, and, it folly for aboriginal parents to suggest otherwise; else, the children in a sense become immigrants in the country into which they born, "still" their country and where they "still" are righful [twenty-first century] citizens. Herein, modern Australia Anglo-Western core values are Australia-based, not race nor clan based.

By remaining patrimonal and kin based, it is the dysfunctional family, which is fed, perpetuating and the fueling of racism against whites fuelled. Every other race in the world coming to Australia seem to fit-in. So, who is out off step

To DavoP
"You can't keep building houses for anybody until they are trained to maintain it".
A lot of community houses were built in the 70s and new houses get built each year, existing houses are constantly being repaired after being trashed. Houses should last longer than 30 years. There are Indigenous training houses in the NT, where families move in and are shown how to look after them, there is one two doors down from where I live in Darwin.
I own a very basic ex government house which was built in the 70s and my house isn't destroyed. I look after my home. I have lived in this house for 16 years.
Indigenous houses dotted around in the urban areas also get trashed and are filthy, broken windows, beer cans and rubbish everywhere.
If white people treated their housing commission houses like this they would be kicked out.
It's not a healthy environment for their children and there is no excuse for this. If they do not have employment, they get welfare payments, and very reduced rent on their homes. The urban Indigenous housing commission homes are absolutely no different than the housing commission homes rented to white people.

Speaking of paternalism ... apart from the well-rehearsed comments-on-cue from the Howard government’s Child Abuse Task Force pin-up boy, Noel Pearson, and the odd comment or two from a few token indigenous alcoholics, the Aboriginal community has not had much of a media voice in all this kerfuffle.

In terms of the many professional indigenous women who have spoken out repeatedly, and called for action, on these issues for several decades – Naomi Mayers, Gracelyn Smallwood, Boni Robertson and Pat O’Shane among others – there has so far been an uncanny media silence.

Interestingly, Ms O’Shane's view – expressed in an open letter to Opposition Leader, Kevin Rudd – was published in a newspaper today, but not an Australian newspaper. To our national shame, the newspaper in question is The Tapei Times:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2007/06/28/2003367200

John Hirst, dinasaur, geriatric writer, thanks heavens he is nearly ready to put into the ground. Unfortunately in will be in this fine country. RIP.

What has a full time uni student on the "dole" got to do with this (he could have been on austudy legally)except to reinforce a welfare bludger status on indigenous Australians.

Given the recently released ABS stats on the indigenous labor force, 8.6% unemployment in remote areas, it shows many do have jobs. That makes Hirst's dole bludger analogy rubbish.

Even the "children are sacred" report says that they have no reliable statistics on child sexual abuse. Hirst has attacked the Family Court for the ease with which false reports of sexual abuse are allowed to be investigated, yet he does not question the assertions of Howard and Brough.

Mal Brough said in Parliament in October "Yesterday I announced the appointment of an independent auditor of remote Indigenous communities so that we can better ascertain the real policing needs for those communities, and that person is Mr John Valentin. He is the former Deputy Commissioner for the Northern Territory Police. His appointment has been welcomed by the Australian Police Association, as it has been by many others. His task over the next three months will be to determine what policing levels are needed to ensure the safety and security that most of us enjoy, and all of us deserve, in our communities. It will help us to be able to determine, with state and territory governments, where the $40 million that we have allocated to new police stations and new police houses will be used, so that it is on the best advice that these communities can enjoy a safer future and these young Aboriginal people can have the same sort of future that the rest of us expect throughout Australia."

What happened to this report? Why the "emergency"?

John Howard got some polling that showed he needed to lift his credentials on "social issues" so we have this ill conceived policy on the run.

I work in the NT in child protection - the inside of this issue. Enough with the excuses and the politicking and the blame-gaming! I despair of a nation where boundary-stalking and patch-guarding and position-defending overide the horror of the daily circumstances of so many children and women. And I despair of a nation where misguided do-gooders have created a two-tiered set of rules about public health, child welfare, substance abuse, and so many other social issues - where it's OK for some people to suffer horrendously so long as their and their parents' traditional culture is preserved. The significantly lower standards we are all prepared to accept for certain vulnerable people because of their racial/cultural origins is nothing more than socialist/reverse racism. Try listening to a 7 yr old tell you about the several men who interfered with her and see if you care what colour they all are or what creation myths they believe! And then see if that girl at 14 or 21 or 28 would happily trade her culture and her uranium-free outstation for a safe and protected and healthy childhood for her and her kids.

All those claiming that the government is being 'paternalistic' why is it that you and your colleagues who are demanding 'consultation' have not come up with some answers before now?
I am sickened by the 'do good' and 'politically correct' brigade who have refused to allow any progress to be made, who have stood by and allowed children to be abused, drugs, alchohol and petrol sniffing regimes to rule, who have demanded that others be denied right of entry and that 'culture must be preserved' so that indigenous children are given less than adequate education.
There comes a point when all of that has to go in favour of doing the right thing by children - something that the critics have yet to recognise.

I think John Hirst discredited his argument when his article became a free-fest of rhetoric on single mothers, dole bludgers, Aboriginals .... I don't recall reading anything about being concerned about the children that wasn't related to economics.

This article illustrates attitudes of John Howard supporters, which is why opposers lack confidence in John Howard on this issue.

MLK,

Pat's letter was too long and too poorly organised. No Australian Letters Editor would accept it. If writing to a paper, she should present one key point, write in such a style, so the copy editor can cull from the bottom-up to fit-in with other people's letters, and keep the letter to less than 120 words or so. Nothing sinister, here.

If she followed these guidelines, she would have had a better chance at being published. Besides, papers received hundreds of letters each day. Should a judge's poorly written contribution be selected over your well written alternative?

Rainier's right. This old clown has been put out to pasture by the Academy, but he hasn't had the good grace to go fishing, or play bowls or whatever they do.

Instead he's become a rather pathetic armchair field-marshal in the culture wars - and this is more of the same. As is being increasingly obviously demonstrated in the media, this is nothing more than a political stunt which cynically exploits Aboriginal children. Howard and his government have been aware of the appalling conditions in some Aboriginal communities for years, but they've chosen to wait until a few months before a Federal election to purport to be doing something about.

As I've said elsewhere on this forum, if you're sucked in by this stunt you're either a racist or a fool, or both.

CJ Morgan,
If this is a political stunt to assist John Howards relection, Why does Kevin Rudd and Noel Pearson support the action taken by the Prime Minister? If the left persue this line the same as they did over the Tampa issue they will be out of step with 98% of people in a recent opinion poll who support the action. It would appear you rather ignore the rights of children to a healthy and normal life.

"The ‘Little Children Are Sacred’ report was made public in Darwin last week. The nine month inquiry went to 45 indigenous communities in the Northern Territory. It said that “rivers of grog” fueled widespread child sexual abuse.

The tragic thing is that little girls need their fathers, as Prison Fellowship President Mark Earley said recently in USA. “Many of their adult attitudes are formed by good father-daughter relationship.” Abuse messes everything up for years.

Dr. Meg Meeker puts it in her new book, “STRONG FATHERS, STRONG DAUGHTERS” – “Most are good men . . . but you are good men who have been derided by a culture that does not care for you, that has ridiculed your authority, denied your importance, and tried to fill you with confusion about your role. But I can tell you that fathers change lives.”

Meeker has seen a lot of girls stranded in the sexual wasteland, with sexually transmitted diseases, depression, eating disorders, and underage pregnancy. Dr Meeker found that the girls involved in damaging behaviors are the girls who don’t feel loved and valued by their fathers.

Fathers can ensure that their daughters grow up with healthy ideas about sexuality. You don’t have to be an expert on STDs, or anything else, to guide your daughter away from this wasteland. You just have to do your job as a dad. Talk to her, even when she doesn’t seem to be listening." Quote from Rev Dr. Gordon Moyes

Surely there is some middle ground?

Rex Wild, one of the co-authors of the "Little Children are Sacred" report has attacked the governments approach, not out of ideology, but out of practicality.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pms-got-it-wrong-on-abuse-plan/2007/06/28/1182624002936.html

Most of the reports 97 recommendations are not being followed by the government. To latch onto a report as evidence of the need for a lightning response (complete with the military being flown in) yet not following the recommendations therein strikes me as absurd.

The author makes much of the lack of work ethic, and governmental disfunction in remote communities. A detachment from reality is apparent here. When a community has no infasturcture, health care or even adequate housing, how can it function as the author (and I) would like? To quote a member of the Mutitjulu:

"Any community, black or white would struggle if they were denied the most basic resources. Police and the Military are fine for logistics and coordination but healthcare, youth services, education and basic housing are more essential. Any programme must involve the people on the ground or it won't work. For example who will interpret for the military? ...

How do they propose keeping alcohol out of our community when we are 20 minutes away from 5 star hotel? Will they ban blacks from Yulara? We have been begging for an alcohol counsellor and a rehabilitation worker so that we can help alcoholics and substance abusers but those pleas have been ignored"

Mutitjulu has been under administration for the last 12 months. No evidence of fraud or mismanagement. It is also worthwhile to note that in collaboration with the commonwealth and oil companies, the instance of petrol sniffing in the community has dropped dramatically. I don't mean to imply that all is well throughout the territory, but practical outcomes are better achieved when we work together with the local community.

While I am please that FINALLY there is some action, surely there is some middle ground in all this? Surely we can be interventionist without hurting the people we are trying to help?

Oliver,

I don’t know the circumstances of the publication of Pat O’Shane’s letter by the Taipei Times, but it was not a Letter to the Editor. It was an open letter to Kevin Rudd, which was published in article (or op ed) form. Its length would not have been an issue, at least in this case. While I agree the writing is very emotional and poorly organised, it is publishable. Having worked in publishing myself, I know that if a piece of writing is topical, poor quality writing is unimportant as a copy editor’s job is to bring it up to an acceptable standard.

The issue remains that Aboriginal identities like Pat O’Shane and others, who have been outspoken in the past on these issues, are uncannily silent in the Australian media at the moment. Hopefully, this may change over the coming days and weeks. If not, we should be asking why.

Philo obviously lives in a political fairyland where the recent "culture wars" - in which Hirst was a lame but enthusiastic protagonist - or wedge politics don't exist. Perhaps he should pay more attention to current events and less to Bronze Age mythology.

Fortunately, unlike the shameful Tampa and 'Children Overboard' versions of the current political stunt, it looks like this one will come back and bite the odious rodent. Unfortunately, it looks his replacement won't be a great deal better.

The author gave examples of his students claiming unemployment benefits while studying at his course, and got so tangled by bureaucracy, ended up having to take on casual work. In his sneering tone, he gives away his bitterness towards his own students trying to ride the system to get what they want.

People in need do that. This includes Aboriginal people, migrants, and pensioners: a penny here, a free lunch there, and its called survival. The academic author and journalist forgot exactly how much of a hypocrite he is.

Some academics, like this author, are the biggest bludgers of the system of them all. In Australia, there are complaints from students being ripped off from all over the world, that greedy self-righteous professors are arrogant, lazy, and careless.

The figures on such academics are disturbing. Over 30% are engaged in private consultation business on top of their Tertiary salaries, which range from an average of $60Ks to $80Ks. They get paid well and suck it all in greedily. How do they do it? Delegate the work to their subordinates and then do work in journalism, business consultation and so on while claiming to be researching for their Universities.

Some University staff are the biggest bludgers of this country and this author not only loses credibility, his subjective interpretation is coloured by prejudice. He gives no figures, statistics or real references to ground his argument. He allows us to turn the spotlight back on to him.

When it comes to people scamming taxpayer's money?

Who the hell does he think he is?

What do their children do when they have their heads in the clouds?

I know many academics and most of them have dysfunctional families and children who find party drugs, grog and gambling problems. Now, where do we send the army?

Bloody ‘ell Rainier that’s a dirty post.

You and I have been pretty much onside on this forum, but I do object to that sort of purely disgusting personal attack, with no attempt made to address the debate.

And CJ Morgan’s effort is almost as rank.

One of the really big advantages of Howard’s approach is the scale of national and international attention that it has generated. Unlike all past attempts, the scrutiny is right on, and will remain on. This should ensure that there is no backing down or pulling back on the effort. It should ensure that if the first efforts are not too successful, they will be redoubled. It should ensure that the issues get dealt with no matter how long it takes.

To ChrisC:

Be careful when you quote self-appointed spokespeople from Mutitjulu. Often all is not as it at first seems.

There is in fact absolutely no absence of "healthcare, youth services, education and basic housing" at Mutitjulu, despite what certain propagandists would lead a gullible public to believe. As for "who will interpret for the military?" the answer is that the qualified interpreters could do this, just as they did at the meeting yesterday.

As for "How do they propose keeping alcohol out of our community when we are 20 minutes away from a 5 star hotel? Will they ban blacks from Yulara?", the answer is clearly "no", as the licensed outlet at Yulara is not permitted to sell takeaway alcohol to non-guests. The writers of this statement, if they were locals, would have known that very little of the alcohol which causes so much trouble at Mutitjulu comes from Yulara or Curtin Springs - it comes down from Alice Springs in the cars of Mutitjulu residents who on-sell it at inflated prices to their fellow residents.

Rather than spending their time "begging for an alcohol counsellor and a rehabilitation worker so that we can help alcoholics and substance abusers", the alleged authors would be better advised organising their fellow residents to do something about the illegal grog-running which breeds the addictions.

John Hirst blames the welfare state on LIBERTARIANS. But surely he should blame social democrats. LIBERTARIANS have never promoted the welfare state. LIBERTARIANS point to the government imposed minimum wage and other obstacles to employment and social integration as the cause of economic failure in such communities. LIBERTARIANS point to the mess created by government intervention in both the social and the economic sphere.

Perhaps John Hirst meant to chastise left-wing CIVIL LIBERTARIANS. Unfortunately he has blamed LIBERTARIANS for a belief system that belongs to SOCIALISTS. He needs to sharpen up on his understanding of political genealogy.

http://australianlibertarian.wordpress.com/

I fail to understand two issues here.
(1) Why have they scrapped the entry permit system? this would seem to defeat the whole purpose of this exercise, I can imagine 4 wd's full of yobbos, petrol and booze heading out for a weekend of roaring around the bush, selling slygrog, petrol and if they get lucky might get to screw a nice little underage creamy. A lot of right wing yobs have been resentful of the permit system for a long time seems like a vote catcher to me.
(2) Why have they taken control of the land? it seems like payback for Mabo to me, the idea being to drive the people from the land so that pastorlists and miners can have an open go.
I have lived in Alice Springs in the type of house they build in these outstations, Besser blocks with a tin roof, they are unbearably hot unlivable without airconditioning. Why don't we have architects expert in sustainable housing in consultation with the community buiding houses that they want, nobody respests something that is imposed on them whether they be black white or brindle.
I also lived on Melville Island in the 60's under the paternal system and that it was crap, the only part that worked properly was sanitation because the bloke in charge could speak Tiwi and understood the customs of the Tiwi people.There were no police and no grog and the most honest people I have ever lived with, there were no locks, you could leave money, smokes, grog, tools, anything laying around and nothing ever stolen. The houses weren't very well looked after but nobody used them except to keep their record players and stuff out of the rain.
My experience there taught me that without consultation and coperation you are just beating your head against a brick wall, and as I said before no respect for something imposed on them . 200 years of white domination has taught aborginals the best way to deal with whites is "yes boss" then go and do whatever.

Well said Dan Fitzpatrick. Anungu elder Mantatjura Wilson said on Lateline 21/6/06

we are at war within ourselves. We live in a war zone. A big war.....we suffer rapes, kidnaps, murders, arson, and torching of houses.

Wednesdays apology for a statement from those at Mutitjulu confirms their own earlier descriptions of the levels of intimidation at work within that community.

After last years revelations on Lateline by women of Mutitjulu, these same women had to pay reparations to the men, including the odious Ginger.

On another subject; if CJ morgan, FrankGol and co. are representative of the support Rudd attracts then we are in for a hate inspired government come the election.

palimpsest says: "...if CJ morgan, FrankGol and co. are representative of the support Rudd attracts then we are in for a hate inspired government come the election."

CJ Morgan and co. can speak for themselves. But if I may:

(a) I have not posted anything on this topic (until this).

(b) I do not support Kevin Rudd.

(c) Apart from that, everything palimpsest says about me is either true or false.

Oh I just love OLO. It gives me the giggles at breakfast.

The personal labeling and naming on this forum sadly demonstrate why our society and its institutions are so clumsy. I doubt that face to face some of you would be so intemperate. Most have some points about the issue that may be significant. However the discussion is pretty irrelevant to the people concerned and I would guess of little value to policy wonks.

It may have taken an impending election do stir government but what does it matter? Government has acted, informed it seems to me by the ADF's experience in other communities in crisis(implicit in minister Broughs life learning and compassion for these people). I would be confident that is will succeed providing they are sensitive to healthy community needs.

What comes after is in the lap of the gods, if articulated policy is any guide.That too however must be guided firstly by the needs of these communities and to a lesser extent by our capacity to provide it.

My hope is that it will be a self development process adequately supported by us for as long as it takes. Perhaps it might a support and encouragement Commission with a life as long as is needed for the generational change required to restore a sustainable culture and leadership capacity in these communities.

Leave the theorising and ideology where it belongs and lets focus on "what is right for all concerned", what is realistic in the contemporary social environment these communities are part of, and make sure those concerned have the safe space and support to achieve it.

FrankGol-nobody likes to have their opinion misrepresented by another. Or lumped in with other's opinions to prove a point.
You had no problem misrepresenting my 22/6 post in the "has M-C Become A Dirty Word" blog.

MLK,

Thanks for the clarification. I have been on the editorial board of an academic journal. Reworking the English manuscripts of distinguished Chinese professors, without affont to "face" was a challenge.

Generally, I think of Pat O'Shane more in her judicial capacity, rather than her aboriginal ethnicity: Unlike, say, Noel Pearson.

palimpsest: "if CJ morgan, FrankGol and co. are representative of the support Rudd attracts then we are in for a hate inspired government come the election."

Wrong again, pal - I'm not a Rudd supporter either. And while I might regard Howard as a mendacious political rodent, that's not the same as "hating" him.

I don't think I hate anyone, actually. It's an emotion I've always struggled to understand. I know it when I see it - like in much of the xenophobic twaddle one reads in this forum, for example - but I'm not sure I've ever really experienced it.

Tell me, palimpsest, what's it like?

FIGJAM Fitzpatrick, expert on everything, anywhere anytime. You gotta love him.

Rainer,
As long as the economy is ok let's not worry about anything else that may fit into the catergory of "social issues" JWH has never let those distractions hinder him, as long as the BIG end of town is ok. If he wanted to genuinely do something about child abuse a phone rings in this country every 2 minute to report child abuse, why not treat the rest of the populations problem.

I do not support John Hirst’s politics, but the personal attacks on him are extreme and have no facts presented to support them, as is the case with so much that passes for debate on this and other sites. John Hirst was my tutor in Aboriginal History 35 years ago. It’s a long time, but while people change their view, they rarely change their character. He’s no redneck. He’s not lame; try reading his “Sense and nonsense in Australian history” for an insightful perspective on lots of aspects of our past. He is not a bludger, but a hard-working academic who freely and genuinely helped his students in their studies. Those who keep up with the decline of our universities would know how much worse staff-student ratios are nowadays. I am told tutorials now have 20 to 30 students in them, while 30 years ago there were eight to 10. You would not survive as an academic today unless you worked hard.

We can obviously all argue about the details of John Howard’s intervention in the Northern Territory, but those who are content to dismiss it as “racist” or “genocide”, rather than argue the specifics, will simply help the Liberal Government be re-elected because they tar all opposition to it as extreme and make it seem safe and mainstream.

Chris.C,
I recomend you refer any questions to Prof Terje, I see she is still here pedaling her rubbish about reds under the beds, the yellow peril and those mean and nast socialists who want to put a roof over everyone's head as well as Jamie Packer.

Chris C

I think John Hirst put others off-side by attacking other members of society.