There are conspiracy theorists sure, but most are harmless fun. It's the ones revolving around terrorism that horrify.

More than half the Muslims in Britain, although it's basically the same everywhere else, don't believe Muslims were responsible for 9/11 or 7/7, even though many clerics praise both.

Some have stated this more eloquently than I ever could, but there are those who argue that the Islamic world, including the diasporas in the west, are largely made up of paranoid delusional conspiracy theorists.

It's true. Even the new, improved, redneck Mufti, doesn't believe Bin Laden did 9/11, and that he says so openly (and no, there will be no protests to remove him by Muslims because they believe it too)

If one goes to MEMRITV.org - an excellent site that monitors TV in the Muslim world, one will see nothing but conspiracy theories, outright lies (the weirdest one I've heard so far is that the Koran is scientifically proven and Allah lives 240 billion miles away from earth!) and sick stories of how Christians spread AIDS through Africa - bizarre given it is ONLY Christians, and some secular western groups, that even help anyone in need around the world. Remember the tsunami? Where were their 'Arab brothers' then?

I've heard that the last Pope was killed because he became a Muslim, that Jews drink the blood of Muslim kids because they're really vampires - and this is on prime time TV in the Muslim world!

Something needs to be done, bomb the crap out of their TV stations for a start, but their schoolbooks, media, and especially their redneck parents who instill hate - need to be sorted out.

Conspiracy theories revolving around other races, cultures, can lead to NAZI Germany...their backward minds need to be opened.

Benjamin

Extreme confusion and double standards, mate.

On the one hand you say we should "bomb the crap out of their [Muslim] TV stations". And we should "sort out" [a euphemism for censor or remove?] their schoolbooks, media, and especially their redneck parents who instill hate".

Instill hate, you say?

But on the other hand I presume you haven't been indoctinated by Muslim TV or Muslim schoolbooks or Muslim newspapers or radio, have you? Nor have you been brainwashed by Muslim parents? So why do you exhibit so much hate? And advocate such violence? In what way are you different from those you condemn?

You make a strong- if inelegant - point in saying: "Conspiracy theories revolving around other races, cultures, can lead to NAZI Germany...their backward minds need to be opened." The question is: whose mind needs to be opened?

Or put it another way, can you open someone's mind by bombing them? Can you combat by terrorism by your own acts of terrorisim? Can you get rid of hatred by your own acts of hatred?

to FrankGol,

Benjamin isn't confused or hypocritical, not unless you also think that ALL police are hypocrites for using force to arrest those who break the law and would threaten us all.

It isn't contradictory to use force to uphold the very liberal principles that allow us to be free and equal. Were you against the bombing of the Nazis?

When it comes to people or countries or cultures that exhibit extreme hate and racism and brainwash their kids to hate the "other" we should completely crush this yes, we should as a world, if we truly uphold the principles of freedom, occupy these places and run their government like a Soviet police state, until they learn to treat others as equals and with respect.

It isn't hateful to hate hate, such as Nazis or Talibans. To say this is hypocrasy simply means that you are thick, or must be a strict pacifist who believes in NO police, someone who would stand by while murder and human rights violations happen in front of you.

White Warlock

So, what you're saying is that it's OK to bomb people, deny them their freedom of expression and take them away from their parents because you think they all hate you.

And you would somehow do this in the name of "upholding the principles of freedom"? Then you would quote "run their government like a Soviet police state, until they learn to treat others as equals and with respect".

Dare I suggest that respect is a reciprocal quality - you can hardly expect to earn a people's respect by bombing them, can you?

Perhaps I really am thick as you suggest. I was stupid enough to think OLO posters would be coherent, logical and reasoned.

Again I ask: what's the difference between you and the people you condemn for their alleged hatred and violence?

If you don't answer me properly, should I come over and bomb your house and take away your liberty?

Ah ha! This whole ridiculing conspiracy thing is obviously a government conspiracy to prevent us uncovering government conspiracies! John Howard escaped from Area 51 after crashing his space-ship and Tony Abbott was the second gunman on the grassy knoll!!

The government, any democratic government, could, without too much exageration be defined as a "group of mostly middle-age men linked by the singular inability to keep a secret for any length of time". No government keeps a secret for long. I’m comforted by this fact. It how I know there really isn’t aliens in Area 51, or that there is a nuclear weapons facility under The Lodge etc...

And of course if you DO happen to know something THEY don't want others to know about then they are not going to let you say it anyway!
:-)

How to become a conspiracy theorist? I've always said 'put two people together and there will be politics'. Likewise put three people together and presto,the third will be a conspiracy theorist.
An observation- humans seem to need an opponent. Our lot seems to require that something posed will be counter-posed. Knock down the Berlin Wall and....take a stroll down the Arab street. Left/Right, Yin/Yang....the game of life? The mighty Maroons squash the cockroaches, yeah.
FrankGol, maybe your a malignant entity from Middle Earth, but I like your point. Maybe Bush and his neos should set up office in downtown Baghdad or Riyadh and Wheres-he Bin Hidden should get something palatial on the 98th floor of the Empire Strikes Back building. This might cool their ardour.

Conspiracy theories are a coping mechanism for those who do not feel like they are in control of their own lives.

Someone else is to blame for the misfortunes that surround them.

Conspiracy theories by and large tend to simplify human behavior to the point of absurdity.

That is why they are so much fun to read and debunk.

Then again, it is reasonable to believe that everything you are told in the media or by politicians is the absolute truth and that nobody ever has any vested personal interests or agendas?

Many things we are taught as "history" are later shown to be lies or half-truths.

Funny how the words "conspiracy" and "theory" are always used together, despite the fact that many conspiracies are later proven to be true.

Perhaps simply accepting everything at face value is the true coping mechanism at work.

Another good article on this topic

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21102

don't let your paranoia get you. :)

I agree with Benjamin's line.

The biggest conspiracy believers are Bush and Howard. All they have managed to do is give credence to Bin Laden's dreams to the extent of now being a world wide movement. In their twisted little minds that is. It is these "leaders" that are feeding and creating terrorists with their own paranoia.

Elvis is in Iraq, having walked on the moon and swum with Harold Holt through the Bermuda Triangle to see God. All fiction.

to FrankGol,

You ask: "what's the difference between you and the people you condemn for their alleged hatred and violence?

If you don't answer me properly, should I come over and bomb your house and take away your liberty?"

Two points here: first, the difference between me and the people I was referring to in my post (the ones who are against equality and fair treament and freedom) is that I am for liberal values and they are not, and their hatred and violence and bigotry and racism is not "alleged" it is in our faces every day. Look at any newspaper or tv news program from any Muslim dominated nation and you will see the same filth.

Secondly, my whole point about bombing those dictators and bigots in the first place was so that their victims (their own people usually) can live in the same freedom and with the same equalities as us. I wasn't referring to taking away liberty but giving it. Did the US and Britian take away the liberty of the Nazis or the totalitarian Japanese in WWII? Why don't you ask the people of those countries today whether they would have preferred the US and Britian done nothing and see what they themselves say. Ask the South Koreans whether they prefer that the US stayed out of their business (which by the way, China and Russia were fully in at the time) so that they too could enjoy the benefits of greedy, criminal, totalitarian nations just like their brethren in North Korea. Geez,I wonder why Taiwan, South Korea, Japan are all the best countries in Asia today in terms of wealth and rights (even though they are still far behind the West but much much better than other Asian countries).

Looks like, due to the leftist bigotry and stupid nihlism, Vietnam missed out on these benefits, because leftist racists, who don't believe that all people should live with rights, equality and dignity, made the US army pull out of Vietnam and gave it to the criminal so-called communists who simply robbed the place.

IDIOT.

FrankGol,

You should attack the merit of my argument, not fritter about the edges with untidy words.

To be honest, you sound kind of scary. Why would you feel a need to gain respect from those with such values of intolerance, barbarism, and utter depravity?

You even sound as though you doubt this - again, even a cursory look at Muslim TV channels will astound even the most ardent anti-western member of the leftist herd!

The MEMRITV site is a good start. Seriously, take a look. Listen to their highest government officials describe how the Koran is scientifically proven, or female genital mutilation (which IS supported in the Hadith - for all those ignorant enough to say the practice has nothing to do with Islam. While true that it is a North African practice occuring among non-Muslims, Muslims by and large make up the most of it, but also have religious authority for it, with Muhammed referring to the practice several times) is better for the woman because if not she runs around naked trying to have sex with everyone.

After looking at a few videos, and remember these are mainstream TV channels (the same sentiment occurs in all their mainstream print media too, with anti-Christian, anti-Jewish hatred - both in article and cartoon form, a daily occurance) you will agree that any children brought up in that environment (remember too that their parents are usually worst of all in the bigotry dept.) should be removed.

I say it is not wrong to destroy those cultures, those value systems. I say it isn't hypocritical.

We say everyone is equal here in the west (the only place mind you) yet have police, and allow them to arrest someone if they have to.

This isn't hypocritical though either, as it isn't going against your values to use force to stop someone going against your values.

If you understand this, you will accept that your argument earlier is utterly flawed.

White Warlock (on face value)

You SAY the difference between you and those nasty people is you believe in 'liberal values'. Funny though, I don't get any sense in your writing that you are a liberal - neither in what you say nor the tone in which you say it. Liberals don't advocate bombing people in order that they change their religion.

Giving people liberty by bombing them and installing 'our way of life' seems hardly to be working in Iraq. Would you prefer to be living in 'liberated' Iraq or Vietnam which has, as you say, 'missed out on these benefits'?

By the way, did you mean to sign off twice? Which name do you prefer? (Or were you shouting at me in order to get some of the liberal sentiment off our chest?)

Benjamin

You say I should attack should attack the merit of your argument. But I can't find your argument.

FrankGol,

Come on. That is the cheapest response one can have! I can't find your argument...are you ten years old or something?

Argue against my post or don't bother.

Slander just makes you look like a fool, but to not attack the thrust of what I write only shows me that I'm right.

Be serious.

Benjamin

What more can I say? Your so-called argument is that we should belt the crap out of Muslims. Why? Because you are scared of them and so we should deprive them in the name of freedom before they take our freedom.

I say that's hysterical and hypocritical. You don't have a reasoned case nor do you address some obvious questions like: Is there contrary evidence as to Islamic thinking? What would be the consequences (on all sides) if we did what you want? Do the ends justify the means? Could there be any unintended consequences?

What else can I say? I figure you're not the sort of guy who wants to engage in debate - otherwise you might think of ways your 'problem' might be solved other than by war and mass killings.

Benjamin,

It might be a good idea to research Muslims debate on the FGM topic. According to the Muslim Women's League:

"Those who advocate for FGM from an Islamic perspective commonly quote the following hadith to argue that it is required as part of the Sunnah or Tradition of the Prophet:

'A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (pbuh) said to her: Do not cut too severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband'."
One interpretation of this passage is that the woman was going to proceed with the circumcision anyway; Muhammad suggested that she remove a smaller amount of her genitalia than she had perhaps intended to.
This passage is regarded by many Muslims as having little credibility or authenticity. The Muslim Women's League comments: "According to Sayyid Sabiq, renowned scholar and author of Fiqh-us-Sunnah, all hadiths concerning female circumcision are non-authentic."

go to www.mwlusa.org

FGM is dying out in most of the existing and new generations. None of the females in my family in my age group or younger have been subject to it.
Its not a 'religious Islam practice' as you alledged.

Conspiracy theories definitely have two sides to them. Everyone should respect everyone elses' opinions in the matter.

http://a.parsons.edu/~tiffanywu/fall07/corestudio1/projects/post911
Here's another site to post your opinions online.